Why Diesel???

[JESSE1]

Ford offers a 6 speed manual standard with the diesel engine. I've really liked the TorqueShift trans in my truck. In Tow/Haul mode, when you start to apply the brakes it will start downshifting. It also senses how agressive to downshift; if you're going fast and hit the brakes hard it will downshift faster and at a higher rpm to help slow down, on an easier stop it will downshift at a slower rate.

 

[wushaw]

Ford and GM both use the Meritor ZF6 for their standard tranny. It is good but is only rated for the 520lb torque setting, another reason so many like the Allison. The computer works with the tranny to not over torque it and it can't do that with the ZF6.
If it is my choice I would take the ZF6 and I have had both.

 

[JESSE1]

I don't know how much torque the 6 speed is rated for but Ford derates the 6.4 diesel to 325/600 only on the F-450/550 equipped with the 4.88 rear axle and manual trans. All other axle ratios with the 6 speed get the 350/650 version of the engine. They make a note of this in the '08 truck specs listed in the brochures.

 

[Rara Avis]

No disrespect to Spiveyman; but I can't stand dually pickups unless the pickup body has been replaced by a flatbed or similar type of truck body. From the front, a dually looks like it's being held back by a boat anchor so to speak; and from the rear, a dually looks like a woman with a fat butt.

Here's what I have on my newest 2007 GMC 3500...


Hillsboro Industries - Aluminum Truck Beds

 

[VA_Joe]

don't feel bad about that V-10 my friend. that is one heckuva motor! i'm still scratching my head as to why GM quit with the 8.1 option and now only offer the 6.0 as an alternitive to the Duramax. a farmer that i'm good friends with has a f-350 with that V-10 in it and he wouldn't trade it for the world. loves the thing! i'm not against a diesel motor, i'd love to have one, but i also don't want to have to live on the street just to afford to drive one.haha i make it just fine with my '04 Z71, works as hard as i need it to. maybe when i buy again i'll look for a good used diesel who knows. this is a very interesting discussion though.

I think it was because the 8.1 was such a gas hog that it no longer made economic sense with $3.00 a gallon gas. Plus - you needed the Allison transmission to really make use of it. At that point - you might as well go with the Diesel option.

 

[VA_Joe]

Great idea on the CVT, and I agree 100%. I used to own a car with a CVT and it was really nice.

I agree on the CVT - very nice. Unfortunately - I don't think anyone has one that can handle the HP/Torque requirements of a pick-up. My experience with CVT was on a compact car.

 

[VA_Joe]

Well, you may not have driven a GM Allison with the tow/haul button pressed. Coast down a steep hill and it will hold speed, tap the brake and it will downshift smartly. No hunting with my 10k loads.

A manual will have better control, but fewer and fewer people know what to do with one. Only Dodge still offers a manual with a diesel in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, which is a shame.

jb

They offer the tow/haul mode on the 6.0 gas engine as well. Very nice feature. It basically negates one of the last advantages of auto versus manual.

 

[john_bud]

You're right - Ford does offer a 6 speed manual.

I was wrong --oops!


Still looks like GM does NOT offer a manual in the HD lineup.


jb

 

[Rara Avis]

You're right - Ford does offer a 6 speed manual.

I was wrong --oops!


Still looks like GM does NOT offer a manual in the HD lineup.


jb

With the Allison and its M position...they won't need to...

 

[mjncad]

Well, you may not have driven a GM Allison with the tow/haul button pressed. Coast down a steep hill and it will hold speed, tap the brake and it will downshift smartly. No hunting with my 10k loads.

A manual will have better control, but fewer and fewer people know what to do with one. Only Dodge still offers a manual with a diesel in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, which is a shame.

jb

I haven't driven the GM-Allison as I'm not in the market for a truck and I'm not a GM fan; I'm just basing my opinion on my experiences.

My wife and I just got back from a trip to the West Slope of Colorado to visit a friend and coworker of hers. We took her little Honda CRV SUV automatic in the unlikely event she would have had to drive. I forgot to set the trip odometer; but I estimate we put a 1,000 miles on her car over 5-days. Her CRV is a fine little vehicle; but if I had my choice, I would have taken my 5-speed Accord for the transmission. Plus my car's smaller trunk would have limited the amount of junk she brought along.

 

[mjncad]

Here's what I have on my newest 2007 GMC 3500...


Hillsboro Industries - Aluminum Truck Beds

That's the kind of bodies that look like they belong with dual rear wheel setups! With the price of aluminum these days, I'd shudder to see the cost; but the added payload capacity could very well pay off for a daily user. I have nothing against duallies from a mechanical and job needs basis; I just don't like the look of the bolted on fenders. I see GM has made one piece plastic or fiberglass sides to minimize the bolt-on look; but I'm sure they are pricier to fix than the Ford or Dodge fenders. Maybe that's why I see so many newer model GM duallies with busted up fenders that go unrepaired.

I received an open pit coal mine tour this past week, and the mine supplies the nearby power plant with bottom dump semi-trailers. They are testing out aluminum trailers for the added payload capacity. Their biggest concern is durability. The mine uses trucks as rail and conveyor lines are not financially practical for the 5-mile distance.

 

[mjncad]

"I understand what you mean, but, I have not had any problems with my Allison "hunting" for gears no matter the size of the load or hill.
Leo

I see you are from Florida Leo, so I'm curious as to where you go for significant hills for your Allison to have fun with.

Just as I have engine choices, I would like transmission choices too.

 

[em14]

I see you are from Florida Leo, so I'm curious as to where you go for significant hills for your Allison to have fun with.

Just as I have engine choices, I would like transmission choices too.

Alabama, the east coast thru PA. (Includes sometimes thru the smokies) ... sometimes I am pulling a 10T GN equipment trailer and sometimes an enclosed 5T cargo bumper trailer. I put it in tow mode and it works great.
Leo

 

[Z-Michigan]

With the Allison and its M position...they won't need to...

For 2007+, the heavy duty GM trucks get a 6-speed auto with the 6.0L gas engine. It isn't the Allison, but it's still a 6 speed. With either that one or the Allison, and again on the HD trucks, you get not only tow/haul mode but also manual control of gears via two buttons on the shifter. At that point all you're really missing is pushing the clutch pedal and replacing throw-out bearings.

My aunt and uncle have a fairly recent van-based RV made on a GM van chassis with duallies and the 6.0L gas engine. The thing must weigh at least 10,000lbs, maybe 12k+. They report zero problems with having enough power, and reported getting 19+ mpg while driving through the Colorado rockies, as an average over two tanks. Not bad!

 

[unreconstructed]

Had a 6 speed in my 5.4 F 250. My F350 V10 I ordered with 6 speed also. It has been shipped but don't have the truck yet. Maybe I'll replace throw out bearings if I keep it long enough. Traded this one a 100,000miles.

 

[Renze]

Duallies debate:

The European and asian light truck makes, all have the same exterior width measured over the tires, for single and dual rear wheel versions. That's because they use a more narrow rear axle on dualled versions to keep the width the same.
Mercedes/Volkswagen have ordered the development of a 16" SuperSingle rear wheel to be able to put the 5 ton trucks on singles, to keep more room inbetween the wheel wells for standard cargo pallets.

Mercedes now also offers the long distance trucks on supersingle rear wheels instead of duals. It weighs 90 kg less than a set of duals.


CVT or AutoShift trannies: Volkswagen offers a robotised transmission in the VW Crafter. It's not an automatic, just a synchro box with automated clutch and gear shift. Mercedes doesnt offer it anymore, and offers a real auto with torque converter instead, even though Volkswagen puts their DSG system on a Mercedes built tranny.

I dont really see CVT transmissions are going to make it on the highway: In Eurpean heavy trucks, the trend is towards engines with a broader power band and more torque, combined with a 12 speed automated crash gear transmission. Volvo used to have a 16 speed for their heavy trucks, but the torque of the FH16 660 motor demanded for wider (=stronger) gear wheels in the transmission. To be able to accomodate these wider gears, the newest version has only 12 gears. Because of the increased power band and torque of the new engine, the transmission doesnt need the closer ratios of those 4 extra gears either !!!!

 

[wushaw]

You're right - Ford does offer a 6 speed manual.

I was wrong --oops!


Still looks like GM does NOT offer a manual in the HD lineup.


jb

By golly your right...looks like GM just lost any future business from me...oh well.

 

[mjncad]

Alabama, the east coast thru PA. (Includes sometimes thru the smokies) ... sometimes I am pulling a 10T GN equipment trailer and sometimes an enclosed 5T cargo bumper trailer. I put it in tow mode and it works great.
Leo

Though my East Coast travels are limited, friends and relatives who live back east have mentioned the hilly country you drive through. Glad to hear you are happy with your truck and powertrain choice.

 

[mjncad]

Duallies debate:

The European and asian light truck makes, all have the same exterior width measured over the tires, for single and dual rear wheel versions. That's because they use a more narrow rear axle on dualled versions to keep the width the same.
Mercedes/Volkswagen have ordered the development of a 16" SuperSingle rear wheel to be able to put the 5 ton trucks on singles, to keep more room inbetween the wheel wells for standard cargo pallets.

Mercedes now also offers the long distance trucks on supersingle rear wheels instead of duals. It weighs 90 kg less than a set of duals.

A SuperSingle tire and wheel sounds like a "Floater" tire I've seen on transit mixer front axles and concrete pump trucks. When Ford announced their F-450 pickup, I thought it would be nice if a wider set of wheels and tires would be available to do the work of the duals. A set of fender flares is one thing; but bolted on plastic fenders just don't look right to me.

 

[JESSE1]

Actually, Ford used to have a pickup with super single rear tires. Back in the mid-to-late '70's, Ford made an F-350 Super Camper Special. It was a regular cab pickup with a stretched 140" WB(compared to 133") and had 12.50x16.5 rear tires, 9.50x16.5 front tires standard from the factory. I had a '79 F-350 Super Camper Special Lariat with the 460 engine and auto. Got 8-10 mpg on a good day.