Why Diesel???

[ddivinia]

Amen to that. I think the 2006 Ram/Cummins and Chevy/Duramax engines are going to be highly sought after for a long time - massive hp but without the emissions burdens of the 2007+ models. The 2006 ISB doesn't have an EGR valve, which you definitely don't want if you can help it, and none of the 2006 and earlier models have the DPF filters prevent you from using higher sulfur fuel and that require complicated fuel programming (occasional rich burns to recharge the DPF) that hurts overall mileage.

I have a 2005 Dodge 3500 SRW 4wd Cummins - I think I will have it a long time. There sure seems to be a lot of issues with all the 07+ diesels. Gasers might make a come back with all the issues I have heard about.

D.

 

[Crash101]

Oh the diesel, is it worth it question. It's been asked many times and answered many more times. We can read the numbers and spec sheets until we're blue in the face and still are confused. Confused that is, until we hook up to a heavy load. At that time all the questions disappear. I recently pulled my 5th wheel camper (2004 Holiday Rambler Savoy) to Lake Charles Louisiana from here in Hernando Mississippi, a few miles south of Memphis with my 2005 Dodge CTD. That trip yielded just less than 14 mpg going down and right at 21 mpg returning empty. The hardest part pulling the 5th wheel is keeping it under 70mph. (I locked the cruise control at 65 this time otherwise the mileage would have been less). While pulling with the diesel those answers to questions similar to this become apparent. Before the diesel, I pulled with a 3/4 ton Dodge 345 hp Hemi and it wasn't nearly the same.
Diesel? I won't attempt to justify you on paper, just by the smile on my face when I need you. We can consider the V10's and other gas engines all we want but they just don't work like a diesel. Not even close. It's not so much about fuel mileage, or huge increase in selling value later on, it's about the performance, those other benefits are just icing on the cake.

 

[ihookem]

Crash 101 you are right. It ain't close. Like comparing my 21horse kubota diesel to my neighbors 23 horse simplicity gas. Not even close. So to the first poster Toyota can talk all they want, it will fool the rookie but not a diesel owner. I got a diesel cause (1) when i pull I don't know I'm pulling. (2) Just theary but I believe diesels are cheaper in the long run if you can keep the body from rusting, and kep them a long time. I paid 7-8k more for my 05 Duramax/ allison, but I might very well get 500,000 mi. out of it, and 300k is all you are going to get with a gasser. (3) if I sell I get more money back than what the diesel cost by a few hundred bucks. (4) Diesels are going through the same emissions as gassers went through 25 years ago and they are doing great. The diesel prices will come back down in a few years like the gassers did long ago. (5) Half ton diesel pickups coming, and the sooner the better. Dodge is testing a half ton Ram with a 6 cyl 270 horse and 8 cyl 330 horse new diesel. It got 24.6 mpg. hwy. In the Durango it got 25mpg. I hope they get here soon too. 25 mpg would be awsome! Remember the Durango gets 14 hwy. with the 5.9 gas. This will keep diesels alive and well. If they would just get them on the market soon!

 

[KICK]

when was the last time you met anyone with 500,000 miles on a pickup truck?

 

[KICK]

having 29 years diesel repair experience has led me to believe they aren't as economical as people tend to believe.

most people only see the fuel economy, where the deisel has a big advantage.
now that diesels have the trick stuff like variable geometry turbochargers and charge air coolers people also see the power. those are the good points.

people dont see the cost of injection repairs, turbochargers or maintenance costs until they've ran the engine for a length of time and saw some of the disadvantages.

add in exhaust aftertreatment and the unknown problems it will cause, along with the problems EGr is causing since 01 and you will see a change in attitude down the line.

off the top of my head:

12 quarts of oil per change in stead of 6.
filter for 15 bucks instead of 5.
fuel filter changes on a constant basis.
two batteries instead of one( if one is bad, it wont start).
sludge problems due to EGR.

on ISB's
VNT and EGR actuator problems.
Electric fuel tranfer pump issues

on powerstrokes it was head gaskets and injection problems
dont know much about duramax

so the diesel gets better fuel economy and has more oomph, but it really isn't economical

if you like the way they sound and smell and dont mind greasy truck stops, they are the right choice. if you run thousand miles a week with heavy load they are a good choice. if you pull a heavy trailer twice a year, save your money and buy a gasser.

remember, this is coming from somebody who loves diesel engines, but doesn't have blinders on . they really arent for everybody.

 

[rback33]

when was the last time you met anyone with 500,000 miles on a pickup truck?

I know one. His odometer stopped back in the late mid-late 90's, but we know it is well over that. Not much is holding the thing together anymore, but that cummins runs strong. Drivers side door does not like to open and close...that window is busted out, brakes are aweful, right front shock is gone, electrical system is suspect, but the cummins just keeps purring.

 

[BrianW]

when was the last time you met anyone with 500,000 miles on a pickup truck?

TDR had a good article on a guy with a million miles on his Dodge.

 

[Z-Michigan]

KICK, I pretty much agree. We have two diesels, a 2006 Ram/ISB and a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD which has a 2.8L I-4 VM Motori diesel engine. The Ram is great except for the 12 quart oil changes and the awful oil filter location. I would buy the Ram again. Note that the ISB put in the Ram in 2006 doesn't have EGR or a VNT, so there go two significant maintenance/repair concerns and the oil stays much cleaner too.

The Liberty CRD does have EGR and a VNT. The VNT is not a problem (it's not part of EGR on this design) but the EGR is a problem feature, and I already had one failure around 21k miles. Thanks to the EGR there is also a severe soot level in the oil, and the oil burn-off is faster than it should be. I have found synthetic Rotella-T 5W-40, which has a CI-4+ rating, to be a huge improvement over the recommended oil. This engine only takes 6.4 quarts of oil but it has to be synthetic and DCX specified 0W-40, which is extra pricey and not a great choice (old CF rating). The stealership charged me $12.75 PER QUART at the last oil change, which is pretty much the last non-warranty work they will ever do for me, resulting in over $100 for just the oil change. At that rate the fuel efficiency benefit is gone. I also do oil changes myself when I have time and they aren't as bad at roughly $45 for oil and filter, but that's not exactly cheap.

We pull a horse trailer with the Ram fairly often, and while the diesel might not justify itself in pure dollars it does in overall utility and ease of pulling, especially when I hear reports of 5mpg pulling loads with the Hemi version. But I wouldn't buy a 2007+ diesel for the same task, not when their prices went up, EGR was added to all, and at least the GM trucks for 2007+ offer outstanding gasoline options (6.0L with VVT and the 6-speed auto, anyone?). On the other hand I think this is a growing pain like for gasoline engines in 1973, and in a few years diesels will probably be better in cost and reliability than the 2007/2008 models are looking.

 

[Renze]

The problems that EGR causes have one simple solution:
flange off the EGR port. EPA doesnt have to know.

About head gaskets: Some engines have trouble with it. Others dont. It doesnt matter if they're Diesel or gas.

and injectors:
Use only Bosch injection

 

[machmeter62]

KICK: I agree with some of your analogy; however, if you live in the Golden State of Calif, it may not wash with the strict smog laws for gassers, and the PITA of compliance. I started going the diesel route a decade ago, just for piece of mind with reliability and not the constant fear of smog checks, which sometimes required a test station to boot. I like the instant torque and economy, but it is a "WAG" if your saving money with diesels?

 

[cp1969]

when was the last time you met anyone with 500,000 miles on a pickup truck?

A friend of mine who is a self employed roofer bought a brand new 1976 Ford F250 4x4, 300 six and four speed.

He still has it and the last time I asked him, it had over 600k on it. Not the original motor, but the truck had that many miles.

 

[ihookem]

500,000 miles on a diesel? You got me on that one, but I saw a guy with a 7.3 diesel the other day and his battery was dead. I jumped him and asked how many miles? 440,000 he said. Not a big surprise. Kicker, you got me thinking about the costof diesels, but I love my 05 Gmc. One question though about oil changes. Mine has 10 quarts and have been going Amsoil with 15k mi. changes and ew filter and lube every 5k. Would you recomend this. I do know of guys with 60 and 70k mi. on their Amsoil with oil analysis and saying everything ok with the oil. What do you think of this Kicker?

 

[john_bud]

The problems that EGR causes have one simple solution:
flange off the EGR port. EPA doesnt have to know.

About head gaskets: Some engines have trouble with it. Others dont. It doesnt matter if they're Diesel or gas.

and injectors:
Use only Bosch injection

You mean the same "Bosch" that makes the injectors on the Duramax diesel that have failed by the hundreds of thousands? Those Bosch injectors?

jb

 

[mjncad]

... The stealership...

I love it!

 

[mjncad]

A lot of what KICK said in his post #88 is why I bought a V-10 over the Powerstroke in 1999. I could afford the diesel; but I just couldn't justify the added expense for the way I use my truck.

There is no one engine for every application.

 

[firedog]

There is no one engine for every application.

That just about says it all.

 

[KICK]

You mean the same "Bosch" that makes the injectors on the Duramax diesel that have failed by the hundreds of thousands? Those Bosch injectors?

jb

isn't that a bit of a stretch of the imagination

 

[KICK]

There is no one engine for every application.

are you implying that economical operation, reliabilty, power, and speed are mutually exclusive.?

your post sums it up, diesel vs gas is just another game of myth vs hidden reality

theres were a couple people who know hi milers, rest of the bunch are just like birds on the power line, squawking. reality is a well maintained engine will outlast the stamina of the owner, who will get sick of it after a long period of time.

I bet the large majority of the peeps on this board drive trucks that are built in this century,not the last

 

[RobertN]

This is true. We have a '01 RAM CTD and an '04 Ram 1/2 ton gasser.

I bought the '01 as a 10 year truck at least. So far it is 6 years old and only has 102500 miles on it.

My previous truck were higher miles, albeit gassers. My last truck was an '89 F250 4x4 with a 351 and stick shift. Sold it with over 225000 miles. It still ran great, no oil use, etc. The worst thing that happened to that truck over the miles and years was the driver seat foam wore out. Fabric on the seat was good, just the foam squished down. A new leather seat fixed that

One of the best trucks I ever drove was an old Ford F100, '64, that a friend gave my dad. It was beat up. Had a 292, 3 on the tree. Had big leather seat from a lincoln in it. It had dents, dings, primer spots, only an AM radio, no AC. But it ran good, and got better mileage than most trucks now(i was about to get 18-20mpg out of that 292-2bbl). The main bearings were so worn, when you were idling in neutral, the oil pressure dropped to 0psi.

That was a geat truck. Had over 500000 miles when my Dad passed it on to another friend, who continued to use it around his ranch.

I would like a newer truck with bigger HP and torque. Otherwise I am very happy with my truck. My truck is payed for though... I like no payment more than extra power in a new truck

I bet the large majority of the peeps on this board drive trucks that are built in this century,not the last

 

[Rara Avis]

are you implying that economical operation, reliabilty, power, and speed are mutually exclusive.?

your post sums it up, diesel vs gas is just another game of myth vs hidden reality

theres were a couple people who know hi milers, rest of the bunch are just like birds on the power line, squawking. reality is a well maintained engine will outlast the stamina of the owner, who will get sick of it after a long period of time.

I bet the large majority of the peeps on this board drive trucks that are built in this century,not the last

I'm sick of my last century trucks...I just can't justifiy getting rid of them just yet...

Dump Truck is a 1987 Ford F350
Farm Pickup is a 1986 Ford F150
Backup Tower is a 1995 Dodge 3500
Primary Pickup is 2000 Chevy 2500
-----------Turn of the Century--------------
Primary Tower is 2007 GMC 3500 Diesel