Who makes the BEST garden tractor?

   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #81  
Bob,

I downloaded the Ventrac 3000 PDF brochure (ventrac site), and on the front it says 26" turning radius and weight transfer system. Is the 16" radius you mention the uncut grass circle with the larger mower deck? How does the weight transfer system work? Nice machine

Duane
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#82  
I don't quite get the weight transfer system, but it seems to hold the weight of the mower deck right above the front axle to increase the traction. Very similar to the way architects cantalevier buildings and carry the weight back to a support beam . . . at least I think that is how the weight transfer system works. What I know is that the thing drives like it is glued to the hillside.

My wife also seems to like it. She mowed an acre field this morning just to get the feel for it.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#83  
Duane the deck is more than a foot wider than the tractor yielding an uncut grass circle that is about 16" around, sorry about the confusion.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #84  
Yeah, but BUBVFCUT is kinda long! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

"Form follows function - that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union. "
Frank Lloyd Wright

And now a break from our topic for a rant...

Oh for crying out loud, Frank! It is a tool. The beauty of it is in how well it works and how simple is it's design.

We had several pieces of Frank Lloyd Wright furniture in our house when I was a kid. My dad was an architect and construction specification writer. He came from Wright's era and was a big Wright fan. While the stuff was beautiful, it was very uncomfortable, rigid and unadaptable. If you moved it to another room, it looked out of place. Any Frank Lloyd Wright house that I have ever seen(and I've seen dozens) looked like a waiting room at a Psychiatrist's office(and I've seen a few of those, too). None of the Wright homes looked lived in. They all looked like architecture classrooms and gave me the creeps. Imagine being a kid and trying to set up a hot wheels track in a Wright home. Gaaa! The loop the loop would have put him in his grave! There were 4 Wright inspired homes on our block. I was never comfortable in any of them.

Sorry for the rant... Now back to our topic... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif What was it? Oh yeah... our tractors are ugly. I think yours looks much nicer than mine and it's function for its purpose is superb. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#85  
Moss, I'll agree with you on the fact that the Ventrac is SLIGHTLY better looking than the Power Trac. But neither are beauty queens.

By the way, my house, which I had built, was designed by Walter Burley Griffin, a partner of Frank Lloyd Wright. The design was to have been built in Mason City, Iowa in 1912/13 but was never constructed. We substituted brick & cedar for stucco, converted 6 tiny bedrooms into 3 large ones, but left much of the design in tact. Oh, we eliminated the attached 1 stall horse barn and substituted a 3.5 car garage for practical reasons. On the exterior the windows are all in the correct positions, the footprint is virtually identical to the original, and the main floor is very close to original (we substituted a dinette for the maid's quarters).

We have bits of his stuff (reproductions) scattered throughout. His furniture is awful. But I find solitude and peace in the house. I like the concept of architecture as art and many of our walls have orignal mural work painted on them, or special multi color/layer paint finishes, consequently we have very little adornment in the form of pictures in our home. Lots of wood detailing and lots of paint.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #86  
Well, sorry to have stuck my foot in my mouth /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Maybe I have some other issues to deal with that probably shouldn't be discussed on TBN!... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I hate tiny bedrooms. Mine was about 12X8 as a kid. Half was closet and built in desk. One quarter was bed. That gave me a whopping 5X6 play area. I let my kids play all over the house and I love it... except for Legos... ever step on one of those in bare feet in the dark? Yeowch!!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I will say your tractor's dual controls sound interesting. That could come in handy at times.

Someone in another thread mentioned your weight transfer system. Care to elaborate on that some time? I'll watch your posts.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#87  
Differences of opinions on houses have nothing to do with tractoring! My kid is a girl, not too big on Lego. She does like Playmobile and those small and scattered all over the carpet. Many are rounded, but some are sharp little critters and I seem to only find those pieces with my bare feet!

As for the weight transfer system, I really don't know how to explain it, but in simple terms it allows the tractor to bear the weight of the front implement directly on the front wheels which adds to the grip of the wheels in tough situations. The tractor is rated to cross a 20 degree slope, so I'm guessing the slope I mowed on Sunday was 25 degrees(?) because the tractor would slowly creep down the slope toward the bottom while cutting ACROSS the slope.

The amazing thing is that I was mowing across slopes that are difficult to walk up and the tractor was able to change direction and climb, or even do "u" turns around trees. All the while, the tractor NEVER spun a wheel or lost traction. The Ventrac CROSSES slopes with confidence that my Cub Cadet would decend virtually uncontrolled, and would lift the front wheels while climbing if the slope was apprached with too high a speed. So I may not quite get the weight transfer concept correctly, but I can sure attest to how it works in practice!!!
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #88  
Bob,
Not sure what engine size has to do with the tratcor designation either, however the CUT designation seems to end about 40 HP. Sub-CUTS ???

Also CUTS and SUB-CUTS seem to only have been manufactured in the last few years. Is a Farmall Cub a CUT ? Is an 8N a CUT ? Are all CUT's 4WD ?

Mostly marketing hype I think.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #89  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Well, sorry to have stuck my foot in my mouth /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)</font>

Not at all MossRoad. You spoke your feelings as a TRUE American should!! The way I see it, you just wouldn't like his house. No harm there!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#90  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">( Well, sorry to have stuck my foot in my mouth /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)</font>

Not at all MossRoad. You spoke your feelings as a TRUE American should!! The way I see it, you just wouldn't like his house. No harm there!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )</font>


GerardD . . . I totally agree. When we built the house we knew people would either love it or hate it. To be honest, we don't really care what others think, it is on our property, 1/2 hidden by trees and a hill, and we are the ones who have to live with it. And like I wrote to Moss, personal choice in house design has nothing to do with tractoring.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #91  
<font color="red"> </font> too old (early 40's)

Sure wish I was that age and too old.

Egon
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#92  
OK Egon, I'll fess up, you caught me in a lie . . . I'm nearly almost into my lower-mid 40's. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif But I'm fighting it!!!
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #93  
<font color="blue">You spoke your feelings as a TRUE American should!! </font>

Yeah, I'm good at that part /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #94  
As I understand the weight transfer systems, the lift cylinders are given some low hydraulic pressure, which the operator adjust by a pressure regulator knob. The lift cylinders do some work by picking up some of the weight of the mower. That weight is then transferred to the tractor.
I'm sure with some difficulty you could add it to your's.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#95  
I finally had the weight transfer system explained to me. At least the system on the model tractor I have. It is an always engaged system that uses a spring mechanism to support the weight of the front mounted implement while the hydraulics are set in the "float" position. The spring mechanism moves the weight distribution to the front wheels to increase the traction.

On my model (and I have no idea if this is true for all Ventrac's or just for mine) there is no adjustment knob as the system is automatic. I understand the system on the Ventrac 4200 allows you to engage or disengage it, but I don't know if it is adjustable. The Ventrac 4100 has an OPTIONAL weight transfer system. I played with some Steiners, but don't really know how their weight transfer works, I just know it did, and I was not nearly as happy with the ergonomic design of the Steiner as I am with the Ventrac. That was the main reason I chose Ventrac over Steiner.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #96  
By moving the weight distribution to increase traction to the front wheels.... does this mean it lifts the impliment a bit? If this is the case, it sounds very similar to draft control.

When you here about weight distribution systems, I get this picture of some counter weight moving around inside the machine somewhere. Of course, an implement could be a form of counterweight. If the impliment out front was in float, its weight would be on its own wheels. If you lift it a bit, it would put more of the weight on the front tires. Very interesting.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #97  
Yea, thats how I understand it works.

I agree that the Ventrac has better egronomics. One thing to be careful with is the amount of linkage thats used to put the controls where they are. There have been a few in our shop with problems because of that. No question that they are great machines. If you had to have a "best garden tractor" I guess that would be it, although these are hardly garden tractors.
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#98  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you had to have a "best garden tractor" I guess that would be it, although these are hardly garden tractors. )</font>


<font color="black"> Neil, you aren't going to start that whole mess about what IS and a garden tractor versus what IS a CUT or a SUB-Cut are you? I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the LAWN tractor versus GARDEN tractor definition whenever I go into LOWE's or HOME DEPOT and see machines that basically look the same but with different engine sizes and maybe a CUP HOLDER added or even a 120-volt electrical outlet!?! </font>
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor? #99  
The "weight transfer" systems as used by Ventrac and Steiner and "draft control" system as used by Power Trac produce the same end results but they do it a bit differently. That end result is to increase the net down-force on the front wheels of the articulated tractor and somewhat reduce down-force on the rear wheels. This increased down-force produces more traction and increases steering response, i.e., it helps keep the tractor from trying to "push ahead" instead of coming around when turning on a steep sideslope.

When mowing with all of these tractors having decks out front, it is necessary to put the hydraulic lift into "float" so that the deck can follow the contour of the terrain independent of the power unit. That means that only a very small portion of the weight of the deck (specifically some of the hitch parts) is actually applied to the tractor.

On the other hand, if you were to raise the deck completely off the ground, all of it's weight is now carried on the tractor wheels. Now the tractor has the greatest amount of traction and steering response possible. The only problem is that with the deck off the ground you can't mow.

So weight transfer provides a compromise between these two extremes. Mechanical springs on Ventracs and Steiner 430s and a hydraulic boost system on Steiner 525s and 230s and some Power Tracs are engaged to apply SOME up-lift to the front hitch. When the front hitch is in FLOAT position this lift tends to raise the deck, but it is not enough to get the deck wheels and rollers completely off the ground. The wheels and rollers just barely touch and therefore can follow ground contours just as you want the deck to do. But a PORTION of the deck weight is now being carried by the tractor and aids in traction and steering. To see just how much transfer occurs, several years ago I did some measurements and calculations for a Steiner 430 with 60 inch deck. The deck weighed 360 pounds. With weight transfer engaged and the front lift in Float, all but about 40 pounds is transferred to the tractor.

On the Ventrac 4000 series tractors, the amount of weight transfer is adjustable to account for differing weights of front attachments and can be completely shut off. On the Ventrac 3000 it is preset at the factory and is always "on." On the Steiner 430, it is basically either "on" or "off" and is normally used only with a mower deck. On Steiner 525s and 230s it is hydraulically adjustable to accomodate attachments of different weights.

One additional side benefit of having weight transfer is that it also increases the front hitch lift capacity when lifting a heavily loaded slip scoop. I also use it to "fine-tune" the float when using a power broom and power leaf blower.

When mowing with any of these units on level to slightly sloped terrain you won't notice any particular benefit from the weight transfer system. However, if you operate on side slopes you will see a dramatic difference between having weight transfer "on" or "off." (You really can't do this experiment on a Ventrac 3000 since it's weight transfer system is always "on.")

On articulated tractors not equipped with a weight transfer system, when operating on side-slopes you often need to slightly lift the deck to get the needed traction and steering. This works, but the deck is not really following ground contours. Therefore, the operator has to constantly tweak the lift hydraulics to try to keep the deck positioned to produce as level a cut as practical.

Hope this helps.

JackIL
 
   / Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#100  
Jack . . .

You were an engineer(?) for John Deere, you've owned Steiners, Deeres, Ventracs, and maybe a few others. You obviously know about the weight transfer systems and a lot more than that. So here is my question to you . . . WHO MAKES THE BEST GARDEN TRACTOR?
 

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