which type of hydraulic system & a few other questions for my cub cadet

[electrycmonk]

So I've slept some, read some & read some more. I have drawn up a rough schematic of hydraulic flow from comparing manual to the pipes on the cub.

Some notes referring back to the 1st picture on post #13
#2 = hose return to tank from PBY block (this hose goes up above engine and then loops down between firewall & rear of engine)
#3 = supply hose directly from pump on other side of engine
#4 = the outbound supply (thee PBY port?) To the 3-point port on the rear case/frame of cub
#6 = the pipe I forgot to write down it's destination

Currently, I found the backhoe manual (op & parts)
It's a Kelley series 20 backhoe
1) turns out it supposedly has a strainer inside the 1 1/2" suction pipe from tank
2) it's fully operated plenty fast with cub throttle ~1600rpms (small test digging)
3) seems the tank might be low on fluid
4) PTO pump works fine for the interim (I'll figure out a solid, worthy repair solution before long, I've got it purcolating on the back burner in my brain)
5) want to make the stabilizer feet swivels in the summer too

So here are the three pics for what I understand so far and the possible installation of a rear set plus.....

What is the universal term or terms for a Power beyond block of say 2-4 functions?
1&2 rear remotes (I always see them in a pair yet the FEL has a 3rd for floating(haven't figured out a full understanding yet for my brain)
3 - the upgrade to install a toplink cylinder
4 - to upgrade to use a additional cylinder on a rear blade for tilt/slope relative to tractors axis
(Turns out the old heavy blade has pip holes on a arc for manual tilting)

 

[electrycmonk]

So I've slept some, read some & climbed under the cub today.

{edit for some corrections, adding details & a small mystery solved}

Some notes referring back to the 1st picture on post #13
#2 = hose return to tank from PBY block (this hose goes up above engine and then loops down between firewall & rear of engine) this line appears to feed the power steering pump and steering head then returns to tank.
#3 = supply hose directly from pump on other side of engine
#4 = the outbound supply (thee PBY port/adapter?) To the 3-point port on the rear case/frame of cub {This is also on the 1st picture in POST #21, it is labeled pipe #43 it curls around, up, and over the case to the left side just rear of the axle, up on top}
#6 = the pipe I forgot to write down it's destination {this is a return to the rear of case, just in front of the rear axle on the right side from drivers seat. If you look at the 1st picture in POST #21 it is labeled Pipe #51}

Currently, I found the backhoe manual (op & parts)
It's a Kelley series 20 backhoe
1) turns out it supposedly has a strainer inside the 1 1/2" suction pipe from tank
2) it's fully operated plenty fast with cub throttle ~1600rpms (small test digging)
3) seems the tank might be low on fluid
4) PTO pump works fine for the interim (I'll figure out a solid, worthy repair solution before long, I've got it percolating on the back burner in my brain)
5) want to make the stabilizer feet swivels in the summer too


What is the universal term or terms for a Power beyond block of say 2-4 functions? In the Kelley manual for the backhoe; the joysticks are attached to what they call a "Racine 6 section hydraulic valve w/PBY" & I believe I can recall others use a general term as a valve body? I've also done a little web searching and "valve body" seems to be thee sweeping generalization term?
This is the list of functions I'd eventually like to have on the Cub with these options:
1&2 rear remotes (I always see them in a pair yet the FEL has a 3rd for floating(haven't figured out a full understanding yet for my brain)
3 - the upgrade to install a top-link cylinder
4 - to upgrade to use a additional cylinder on a rear blade for tilt/slope relative to tractors axis
(Turns out the old heavy 3-point rear blade has pin holes on a arc for manual tilting)

/other forums I can go in and edit a post any time later but, it seems I can't do that here? I can only edit for a short period of time after initially posting -it seems. So, this is the best solution I have available to me. (shrugs)

 

[Tractor Seabee]

/other forums I can go in and edit a post any time later but, it seems I can't do that here? I can only edit for a short period of time after initially posting -it seems. So, this is the best solution I have available to me. (shrugs)

From what I am reading and seeing I will provide a few hints:

FIRST make sure the BH has a Power Beyond (PB) capable valve, if does not have 3 hoses you have a problem as it is probably does not have the PB plug installed or it is a closed center type - do some research on the valve, a PB plug may be available if it is a common brand. If it is closed center you will have to replace it with a new one.

You do not want a bunch of hoses running from FEL to rear for hat you want to do

Try to make as much of the new in steel hydraulic tubing

Go to the line from the hyd block (H) that feeds the system Port "B", if I remember, that goes to the FEL and maybe the 3PT, don't worry about the 3 point it may come from the hyd block

That is the line you want to intercept for your new BH and rear remote valve array, cut it and attach new lines to each end

Tee into the line for tank (full size) (T) return for the line from "T" output of new valve array

Bring those three lines to the location where you want the new valves when located where you want to anchor (bulkhead fittings) install QCs on the P and T lines from

The BH has its own valve array so it needs 3 lines (QCs), Power (P), (PB), and (T)

BH will connect to the 2 QCs to operate its PB will connect to the new PB QC to power the rest of the system including new valves

Make a short hose to jumper from the P QC for the BH to the new PB QC that feeds the new PB (you could install a 3 way selector valve to do the same thing w/o the short hose)

Install the new valves, connect the line from the BH PB to the P input of the new valves

Install a another tee in the T line for for the BH and route branch to the new valve T port

Connect the new valve PB outlet to the other end of the line you cut (original power to the FEL)

Hope that is not too confusing, it is not a simple process. I have mulled this plan over in my head and rough sketches a lo,t as I plan to replace my wearing FEL valve and install rear remotes for my BX. You said you have drafting skills, lay this all out in a one line diagram and you should see the picture

Surplus Center a TBN advertiser has an outstanding tech support group. They can help you out a lot. If your BH valve is known to them they can help you there. They handle Prince valves. Look at the 8 GPM models. Use them plus a local hydraulic shop. I find Hyd fittings cheaper locally. Use the same brand/model QC as you tractor has already. If your BH valve is ok plan on this costing around $1k in parts, add $800+ for a new open center BH valve.

Plenty other TBNers out their will point out any mistakes I made. Where is Denton TX? Maybe you can pay my way to see my granddaughter in Waco, Ha Ha

Happy hydraulicing, Ron

 

[electrycmonk]

So, Ron & other folks..... Given this reply is from my phone.... I cut-n-pasted to notepad then added my replies with a extra spacer gap on each side as well as a "-- " to start every one of my replies/comments. Its now 22:45 & I have a very long day tomorrow & wanted to make sure I was cohierant....

So here is the reply imbedded:

From what I am reading and seeing I will provide a few hints:

FIRST make sure the BH has a Power Beyond (PB) capable valve, if does not have 3 hoses you have a problem as it is probably does not have the PB plug installed or it is a closed center type - do some research on the valve, a PB plug may be available if it is a common brand. If it is closed center you will have to replace it with a new one.

-- The backhoe manual shows that the Racine valve body has a PBY Port. However IF I'm remembering what I saw on the backhoe - the manual and the BH have a cap/plug in the PBY port because it's currently a self contained PTO pump setup. And, the manual shows the factory PTO kit & it's parts info. THAT is how I figured out it has a pseudo-filter (strainer) inside the pipe sticking out of the tank on the suction line.

You do not want a bunch of hoses running from FEL to rear for hat you want to do

-- I did draw a very roughed out flow diagram in the pictures I uploaded above and didn't want to have a 'national Lampoon's hydraulic addition' so I drew a dashed line showing where I thought might be a good spot for the "Tee" or "detour" from the feeder to the 3-PT.

Try to make as much of the new in steel hydraulic tubing

-- steel tubing, would be a space saving plan, for sure. We have 2 Hydraulic shops within 30 minutes of us that I trust.

Go to the line from the hyd block (H) that feeds the system Port "B", if I remember, that goes to the FEL and maybe the 3PT, don't worry about the 3 point it may come from the hyd block

That is the line you want to intercept for your new BH and rear remote valve array, cut it and attach new lines to each end

Tee into the line for tank (full size) (T) return for the line from "T" output of new valve array

Bring those three lines to the location where you want the new valves when located where you want to anchor (bulkhead fittings) install QCs on the P and T lines from

The BH has its own valve array so it needs 3 lines (QCs), Power (P), (PB), and (T)

BH will connect to the 2 QCs to operate its PB will connect to the new PB QC to power the rest of the system including new valves

Make a short hose to jumper from the P QC for the BH to the new PB QC that feeds the new PB (you could install a 3 way selector valve to do the same thing w/o the short hose)

-- THIS Suggestion is why I asked about the vocabulary and did a 'bold & italics' of the Racine valve body name (?) In the above post where I asked about a 4 position bank of valves so I could have the QC's (quick disconnects) on 1 & 2. Correct? And then have 3 & 4 to be the upper drag link & #4 to be available for the axis tilt for the straight blade I got...... (Shrugs)

Install the new valves, connect the line from the BH PB to the P input of the new valves

Install a another tee in the T line for for the BH and route branch to the new valve T port

Connect the new valve PB outlet to the other end of the line you cut (original power to the FEL)

Hope that is not too confusing, it is not a simple process. I have mulled this plan over in my head and rough sketches a lo,t as I plan to replace my wearing FEL valve and install rear remotes for my BX. You said you have drafting skills, lay this all out in a one line diagram and you should see the picture

-- it's been a bit confusing trying to draw it in my head with these new acronyms and thinking in a cycle flow diagram. It's funny how I can so easily draw a map in my head for a wiring diagram or water flow for the mods I plan to do to our sprinkler system (as well as the addition of a couple solenoids) and spigots for garden and chicken coop. I plan to redraw what I have so far - with these suggestions you have added into it.... just, I hope to do it later this week.

Surplus Center a TBN advertiser has an outstanding tech support group. They can help you out a lot. If your BH valve is known to them they can help you there. They handle Prince valves. Look at the 8 GPM models. Use them plus a local hydraulic shop. I find Hyd fittings cheaper locally. Use the same brand/model QC as you tractor has already. If your BH valve is ok plan on this costing around $1k in parts, add $800+ for a new open center BH valve.

-- As my Cub Cadet (7260) is listed to be 7.8GPM, 8GPM is a logical option. I WAS hoping to stay way under $1K given my level of ignorance at this stage of planning; I was a$$uming it might end up around $500 in parts. I had a pair of hoses on the FEL go from sweating to a pinhole fountain on 1 in about 2 weeks of use. So I had the pair of hoses cloned. I figured that was enough of a start to "guess-timate" the hoses part of the expansion for BH & a couple other cylinder controls. (previous owner freely admitted to owning for about a decade and using it very little - it seems to show it as I've used it over the last 6-8months now.)

Plenty other TBNers out their will point out any mistakes I made. Where is Denton TX? Maybe you can pay my way to see my granddaughter in Waco, Ha Ha

Happy hydraulicing, Ron

 

[Tractor Seabee]

So, Ron & other folks..... Given this reply is from my phone.... I cut-n-pasted to notepad then added my replies with a extra spacer gap on each side as well as a "-- " to start every one of my replies/comments. Its now 22:45 & I have a very long day tomorrow & wanted to make sure I was cohierant....

So here is the reply imbedded:

The Prince 8 GPM 4 spool valve will cost you between $3-400 depending on options and shipping. It is amazing how fast things like fittings, hoses, line brackets, and etc add up. You will probably get by for between $5-600 on second thought. Tube bending is not that hard. A HF bender and a little practice will save you a lot of hydraulic shop labor cost. A 37 degree flaring tool is not cheap for some reason, you can get hydraulic grade compression fittings, they are excellent but expensive. I am a welder/brazer so that can save me a bundle on fittings. You will want a custom made bracket to mount the bulkhead fittings where the QCs will be. You want them solid not waving in the breeze. Make sure it does not interfere with the BH or 3PT operations. Valve location, that takes some thought on how you want to operate the rear remotes from your seat, personal preference. I have vertebrae problems so I need them in front of me.

LOL, Ron