which type of hydraulic system & a few other questions for my cub cadet

[electrycmonk]

The FEL valve is the valve that is controlled by the joystick you use to operate the FEL. Not sure the Cub is built but flow the linkage from the joystick down to where it connects to the FEL directional control valve. This valve body is typically cast iron and would normally have seven lines connected to it for an open center system.

Lines are:
inlet or pressure
two lines for raise and lower of loader
two lines for curl and dump
one tank line going back to tank
one power beyond line that would typically power the 3 point hitch.

The joystick is directly connected to the cast iron FEL directional control valve inside the "black box" mounted to the FEL frame post.

Quick test to see if your cub is plumbed this way is to lower the 3 point fully. Then operate a function on the loader fully like curl or dump and attempt to raise 3 point at the same time. If 3 point does not move when the bucket is moving you have power beyond from the FEL to the 3 point. You will have to identify this line to build a connection for the back hoe.

FEL joystick will raise/lower or curl the bucket as a solo function at a reasonable speed.
FEL joystick will slow to a crawl is I raise/lower AND curl the bucket in OR out. If I keep curling and STOP the raise/lower then the curl jumps to it's normal speed of movement

I [just tried the FEL single function AND 3-point raise at the same time....no 3-point movement on every test. ]
[Edit part 2= I tested drop 3-pt simoltaniously w/FEL movement and it would drop while FEL is moving
/End edit

I do know that Either the FEL or the 3-PT will cause the system typical sound effect of a squealing belt for a couple nano-seconds when the motion has reached it's maximum R.O.M.(range of motion) then it's shuts off and is silent. This sound I have known about since I started to learn tractor safety in 4H in Calhoun County, Michigan growing up on/around a Holstein farm- initially; then helping Grampa in So-Cal with the stump grinders.

 

[electrycmonk]

To add one more layer to this project. I want to also setup a hydraulic top link setup eventually as well.
Bonus trivia:
The factory parts diagram/manual shows that my model could have it as a factory installed option. Mine currently doesn't have the arm in the cutout site on the fender.

So, with this additional info, hopefully y'all will see where my projected goal will be.

Added tidbit on the Backhoe I'm hoping to score soon, it will come with the subframe, even thought the current owner shared the details of the previous owner put a 3-point modification on it and they had planned to remove it but, never got around to doing anything with the backhoe at all....

 

[electrycmonk]

Holycow, the CSR at the Cub cadet/mtd 800 number came thru with the actual PDF manual with things labeled...... Lookie here :

 

[oldnslo]

Not to burst your bubble but.. this might disable the FEL when ever you switch to remote hydraulics or might not be an option with the FEL installed. You will need to investigate how the FEL is currently being supplied with oil and then determine the best method for adding additional features.

Some tractors have this feature while others use a series approach where the FEL power beyond supplies oil the rear remotes, the rear remote power beyond supplies oil to the back hoe & or 3 point.

agree that it was very nice of Cub to provide that information though as another potential option.

 

[old and tired]

If I keep curling and STOP the raise/lower then the curl jumps to it's normal speed of movement.

So, within your FEL, your raise and lower is first in line for power. When that valve is not using the oil pressure... the curl feature is second in line to use the power of the oil. (third is your 3ph)

...I tested drop 3-pt simultaneously w/FEL movement and it would drop while FEL is moving.

Most tractors do NOT have down pressure on the 3 point hitch. The 3 point hitch simply allows gravity to push excess oil out of the cylinder and back into the tank.

As for the diagram from customer service rep... I simply do not know how your tractor is plumbed, sorry... Good luck with it.

 

[electrycmonk]

I will be able to update either 'late' tonight or sometime tomorrow with my (drafting background) penciled in diagram/schematic of the parts and hoses. Then I also plan to either make a 2nd pic or use a different lines/extra notation w/arrows of what I'm gonna guess is a given flow direction given what the manual shows is flow for several lines that I was able to glance at before I made that post......
[Edit time 6PM just took a few specific pictures of parts (and their obvious location), pipes, & hoses on my cub. Now I can have pics to parallel the drawings I will be making]

 

[ericm979]

If I understand it right that valve in post #13 allows you to add more valves to the circuit but in front of whatever "tractor hydraulics" is connected to. I assume that's the loader and 3pt. When it's in position S the flow still goes to them after it's gone through whatever you connect to P and N.

I don't think there is anything wrong with putting your BH and SCV valves in line ahead of the loader since there's a relief in that valve in #13. The loader won't work when you use the BH or SCV valves but that's probably ok. The one problem is that many BH valve stacks can't handle full system pressure on their output port. So if you load down the loader with the BH on you could damage its expensive valves. Turning the #13 valve to O would keep that from happening.

 

[Tx Jim]

I installed several open center hyd spool control valves on tractors such as JD M & Farmall M back in the 60's-80's long before power beyond was created(thought of) with just a pressure hose on 1 side & return hose on other side(No PBY connection what so ever) plus hoses for cylinders & I'll bet a similar hyd valve attachment will operate correctly on a Cub Cadet that has only 7.8 GPM pump flow. Just insert control valve connections(P & R) in hyd line that supplies tractor 3 pt hitch control valve. I seriously doubt 7.8 GPM will operate a backhoe very fast if at all

 

[ericm979]

The backhoe on my Branson (10 gpm) moves plenty fast. I run the engine at 2000 rpms instead of the 2500 rated speed, so it's more like 8 gpm. Even so I had to slow the boom cylinder down with restrictors so it would not jerk the tractor around. It's not just me, many people run their engine below rated rpm when running backhoes.

Also if there's no PB port and you're chaining valves off the tank port you need to make sure the tank port is rated for over your full system pressure.

 

[electrycmonk]

Update with a tangent.

Found a backhoe with a self contained system. = Good
When I washed it and got it home, closer examination shows the hydraulic system has:
1) no filter in system ( easy enough to fix)
2) the bolt ear-tabs are both broken but held on via screw-tape... Which should hold it from a few days / weeks.
3) discovered that a arm swing piston has been welded and the zerk fitting is no more- so eventual repair or total piston replacement?

No subframe = not so good.
1) just doing a system test with PTO engaged at just above idle I can see how much the unit really should have a subframe!
2) I will be going to the saved thread for "how to make your own subframe" without a doubt post haste.....

Hydraulic system on tractor will still be getting an update for a toplink cylinder - found a very cool YouTube video that's reminiscent of a college course in how it goes into basic detail & shows how to add to the system....

I plan to share the link here for discussion & my curiosity questions that follow.

{Edit because I was falling asleep writing]