Which Tractor to Buy

DougM · Jul 23, 2005

Well we test MOST cars why not MOST tractors ???????

DougM

Bob_Skurka · Jul 23, 2005

In all fairness to the orginal poster's question, we have gotten off the main topic.

The Nebraska Tests are not only valid, but they are the standard by which farmers can measure apples to apples performance. I believe it is ONE of the valid considerations in making a purchase.

Personally, if I buy a tractor over 40hp, I will buy one that has an independant testing agency approval that PROVES it provides the performance its advertising CLAIMS it will. How good of a deal is it to get a great price on a tractor, but then find out it won't perform up to the claims . . . CUT owners may never be faced with that on their small properties, farmers rely on tractors to earn their living, the Nebraska tests are an insurance policy of quality performanc.

shoppintractors · Jul 23, 2005

( The Nebraska Tests are not only valid, but they are the standard by which farmers can measure apples to apples performance. I believe it is ONE of the valid considerations in making a purchase.

Personally, if I buy a tractor over 40hp, I will buy one that has an independant testing agency approval that PROVES it provides the performance its advertising CLAIMS it will. How good of a deal is it to get a great price on a tractor, but then find out it won't perform up to the claims . . . CUT owners may never be faced with that on their small properties, farmers rely on tractors to earn their living, the Nebraska tests are an insurance policy of quality performanc. )

In all fairness to the orginal poster's question, we have gotten off the main topic. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Bob_Skurka · Jul 23, 2005

Don, just to clarify for you, my post was back on topic. The part that was off topic was debating the legal issues of the Nebraska tests. The tests themselves are valid. The orginal post asked about 2 tractor brands, one that participates in the Nebraska tests and one that doesn't. The above post that you quoted, simply states my opinion that I would not buy a 40hp tractor that did not pass the Nebraska tests. The original post asked for opinions, I gave mine, that is on topic. What is not on topic were the series of posts prior to mine, many of which were deleted, and of course, your post which is off topic again, and this post which had to explain that we were back on topic. Do you have something to contribute or are you just posting for the sake of throwing threads off track, again?

RedDog · Jul 23, 2005

The orginal post asked about 2 tractor brands, one that participates in the Nebraska tests and one that doesn't. 

Captkel is the starter of this thread and he said nothing about a "Nebraska" test. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Captkel hasn't been back to this thread. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Maybe he is out enjoying his new tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RedDog

Bob_Skurka · Jul 23, 2005

RedDog, he asked about some specific tractors (NH, Branson), asked for opinions about those tractors, I mentioned the Nebraska tests and I spoke about 2 brands he specifically questioned. The fact of the matter is that the Nebraska Test issue is one point to consider when comparing the brands, just like capacities, power, cost and other factors are points to consider. He also stated he really wants a Deere.

Most other posts have been directing the orignal poster to brands other than he asked about. And most of those provided no useful detail.

rico304 · Jul 23, 2005

I think the Nebraska testing and opinions valued members of TBN are most definately on topic. I'm still looking / researching for "That perfect tractor". Things like Bob mentioned are what keep me going. Most posts look like" You may want to consider (insert tractor brand)." I don't mind those, but they are of little use to me. I want facts mixed in with that. I can't get educated about tractors if people don't mix in facts, testings, experience, and a personal feeling about the tractor. Most threads consist of very little facts other than I love my tractor. I over research, but that is what I do. Many people want this. It makes no sense to start throwing rocks at people that add facts and personal experience along with opinions. It looks like some people go "Off thread" just to slam others when that is not useful. You all love your tractors or you wouldn't be here writing about them. Just don't go after people because they want to throw in facts. If I were looking for a large AG tractor, I would DEFINATELY want to know about the Nebraska testing. Let the buyer decide what is of value to them.

Dargo · Jul 23, 2005

Okay, I looked at the new Branson tractors this morning with the Cummins engine in them. A very bad thing happened when I was there. See attached.

Dargo · Jul 23, 2005

Here is another view from the other side. Sorry for the poor pics, but they were taken from my phone.

The Branson was tough, but I have a strong warning about always wearing your seatbelt. The tractor was being driven by a store employee. He was just going around the block to move the tractor. An older guy in a minivan hit him from behind. The ROPS prevented him from being killed, according to the numerous eyewitnesses. (I was looking the other way). The tractor went all the way on it's top and then back over on it's side. The kid was prevented from being crushed to death by the ROPS. However, he did not have his seatbelt on, and very possibly has a serious head injury.

Keith_B · Jul 23, 2005

(
These companies meet the Nebraska requirements (last time I checked):

These companies do NOT meet the Nebraska requirements (last time I checked):
)

There is no passing or failing the Nebraska tests. The tests record measurements of the performance of the machines.
The primary purpose of these tests are to provide drawbar and PTO performance ratings, including hp and fuel efficiency.

Most companies do not advertise the drawbar HP for small utility and CUT tractors, and haven't for years. When the primary putpose of the utility tractor was to pull a plow or a disk this was a very relevant number. In this day and time when the utility and CUT is used for more varied tasks the drawbar HP has lessened in importance.

The PTO hp remains an important measurement, but the average retail customer relies on his/her dealer to match up the proper PTO driven implements to the tractor size.

Here is a link to the tests done from 1999-2004, Tractor test reports. The bulk of the current testing done is for the 100 hp and above market.

Here is a link to the 90-99 tests:
1990-1999 tractor tests

As you can see CUTs by and large are not listed as being tested.

I am curious as to why the original poster was comparing a TN65, which is a utility, to the Bransons, which are CUTs? Those tractors are not really comparable at all.

Big_Lug · Jul 23, 2005

Bob,

I think every time you have a comment about Branson it's always bad. You have your right to your own judgement but I don't think the ergonomics are of rudementary design and layouts. I think they are very up to date. I don't know what you have against Branson but I have had a New Holland TC25 and didn't like it as much as my Branson.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 23, 2005

captkel, much seems to be said about what I said in several parts of this thread.

Here is the sum total of what I said about Branson: My local New Holland dealer is also a Branson dealer. One of the guys at my church is the head mechanic at that dealership and he and I talk tractors whenever there is a church event. He is not impressed with the Branson line at all. The last time I talked with him, they had the line for nearly a year and they only sold 5 Bransons, they sell about a dozen New Hollands every month. Put the machines side by side and take a look. Yes, the Branson costs a lot less, and yes the Branson is going to pull a plow, but with the Branson you get very rudementary design layouts and ergonomics. 

I also indicated that they do not submit their tractors to the Nebraska tests.

So if all the deleted posts (by other people) have not turned you off completely to TBN yet, and I hope they have not, let me try to clarify that I think (my opinion) that some brands have some advantages over other brands. As your original post stated you really like John Deere, I think it is fair to point out that they have Load Match which is a strong reason to consider that brand. New Holland has features like SuperSteer and SensiTrac. In terms of ergonomic designs, having a loader handle that allows for speed control of the transmission is a great idea (NH) and putting cruise control on the fender instead of the dash allows you to lower your 3pt and engage your speed without taking your eyes off the work (JD). Fender mounted carriers for tools, sunglasses, and drinks are a nice touch too (JD & NH), and while they may not seem to useful, they in practice are very useful. I like the fact that on some brands (JD & NH) the loader control valve and shift lever do not prevent me from getting off the right side of the tractor as they do on some other brands. These are some things I see. As you asked, I thought it was reasonable to point them out.

Dargo · Jul 24, 2005

Hey Big Lug, you didn't like the pics I posted of how tough a Branson is when flipped on asphalt? I have several other pictures from the accident scene. The safety system worked exactly as it was designed to work. The tractor did fair considerably better than the poor kid who wasn't wearing his seat belt. He will eventualy be okay, but he is paying the price right now from what I hear.

rico304 · Jul 24, 2005

Dargo, those were good pics. Hope the driver is ok. I put my seatbelt on everytime I get on a tractor, along with 4 ways. I felt stupid doing that all the time until now. Lesson learned.

RedDog · Jul 24, 2005

Captkel,

Where did you go? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Did you look at any other tractors?

RedDog

johnday · Jul 24, 2005

Brent; Who do you think you're BSing? You flopped that Branson yourself, probably because it wasn't orange. You're terrible! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keith_B · Jul 24, 2005

( So if all the deleted posts (by other people) have not turned you off completely to TBN yet, and I hope they have not, let me try to clarify that I think (my opinion) that some brands have some advantages over other brands. As your original post stated you really like John Deere, I think it is fair to point out that they have Load Match which is a strong reason to consider that brand. New Holland has features like SuperSteer and SensiTrac. In terms of ergonomic designs, having a loader handle that allows for speed control of the transmission is a great idea (NH) and putting cruise control on the fender instead of the dash allows you to lower your 3pt and engage your speed without taking your eyes off the work (JD). Fender mounted carriers for tools, sunglasses, and drinks are a nice touch too (JD & NH), and while they may not seem to useful, they in practice are very useful. I like the fact that on some brands (JD & NH) the loader control valve and shift lever do not prevent me from getting off the right side of the tractor as they do on some other brands. These are some things I see. As you asked, I thought it was reasonable to point them out.)

Bob, while some of those features are nice you're not going to find all of those features on the base models. In fact many of those features are significant upgrades on the more deluxe models, like supersteer on the NH.

What I found when I compared tractors of around the 40 HP range for my purchase was that the big three all had tractors that could compete in price with the Mahindra, LG Montana, Branson, Kioti, etc. I could have purchased a Kubota for a thousand more than my Mahindra, but then by the time I added on some of the extras that came standard with my Mahindra the Kubota was significantly higher. The NH base model, the TC40A, was a couple of thousand more initially, and went up significantly with each add on the Mahindra included in its price. The JD 990 started out two thousand more than the Mahindra, and is a bare bones outfit if there ever was one. The JD 20 series would have run me $4-$5000 more, without the fancy i-match systems, or anything like that.

I bought my Mahindra at what I consider to be a fair price for a good product. The Mahindra weighed more than any of the other tractors I checked out, including all of the big three entries I looked at. The Mahindra included nice "standard" features, like a 12X12 shuttle tranny, foldable ROPS, draft control, independent 2 speed PTO(1000 or 540rpm), tilt steering, a set of rear remote valves, standard MFWD, larger 14-9X24 rear R1s (Mahindra gives customers tire choices of R4, R1 or Turf w/o an upcharge, the big three don't do that). The dealer included delivery, welding hooks on the bucket, and loading the rear tires in the price of the tractor (I requested these things AFTER he priced it). The Mahindra came so close to being equipped the way I wanted it that when I ordered it the only extra was the skid steer compatible quick attach for the loader, which was only $300. The nice thing about the skid steer compatible quick attach is that I am not forced to purchase Mahindra tools for the front, unlike some of competitors that use proprietary quick attach systems.

If someone wants things like a hydrostatic t transmission, supersteer, i-match, and cruise control then the Mahindra 4110 isn't for them. If they want a nice featured tractor at a fair price, comparable to what a bare bones unit from the big three would cost, then the Mahindra 4110 is an excellent option.

I don't know about the Branson/Century tractors, because I have only looked at one, and not very close at that; but if they indeed have their advertised features then they are like the Mahindra, Kioti, & LG Montana and are far from rudimentary.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 24, 2005

Keith, you are absolutely correct that each model is different, and each has its own feature set and its own ergonomic design. I was trying to respond to someone who asked about some specific models, but also mentioned brands in a broad sense. He obviously is very undecided as his initial comparision is a Utility Tractor compared to a CUT comepared to an unknown JD model. I tried to give a broad spectrum type of response about typical features, typical ergonimcs, etc.

Keith_B · Jul 24, 2005

( Keith, you are absolutely correct that each model is different, and each has its own feature set and its own ergonomic design. I was trying to respond to someone who asked about some specific models, but also mentioned brands in a broad sense. He obviously is very undecided as his initial comparision is a Utility Tractor compared to a CUT comepared to an unknown JD model. I tried to give a broad spectrum type of response about typical features, typical ergonimcs, etc.

)

Bob, I'm not sure there is anything typical these days. It seems that there are more variances in tractors these days than at anytime since the era of 3PH, Eagle Hitch, Fast Hitch and Fast Coupler competitions of the 50's. I think this even holds more true of the big three than of the Kioti, Mahindra, etc., lines.

In the Korean lines you basically get the family four door sedans of the tractor world. Lots of nice features that a lot of people think should be standard. The big three, on the other hand, range from the economy bare bones Chevette/Escort versions to the luxury Cadillac/Lincoln versions.

IMO, the original poster likely needs to identify his needs/wants/requirements for the tractor, which will help to narrow down a size/HP requirement for the tractor. A TN65 is not really comparable to any CUT on the market. Each will have things that they are more proficient at, and less proficient at.

Bob_Skurka · Jul 24, 2005

IMO, the original poster likely needs to identify his needs/wants/requirements for the tractor, which will help to narrow down a size/HP requirement for the tractor. A TN65 is not really comparable to any CUT on the market. Each will have things that they are more proficient at, and less proficient at. 

I am 100% in agreement with you on this. If you look at a lot of my posts, I essentially recommend people lay out their tasks and then fit the tractor to the task. That is why I am so un-loyal to any one brand. I tend to think that no brand has the perfect tractor for every buyer, but each buyer's needs will define the best tractor choice. I have always found it silly when people say: I want to buy a "brand x" tractor, which one is best for me?

As for your other comments, I don't totally agree with your analysis, but I don't totally disagree either. There is no question that in this size range NH has several totally different types of tractors with different characteristics. Deere is very similar in their offerings. In the CUT category, CNH basically offers 1 line with some options, Deere & Kubota offer multiple lines. Most other brands may have 1 offering per size that must be more of a "jack of all trades" offering. But as you say, it is a very complex market out there today.