Where the TC45D is NOT deluxe

spencer200 · Apr 12, 2002

The post I made was parts of a New Holland service bulletin this is what they think the problem is.
Yes you can run at any RPM you like there is no problem there. You dont really have a governor.

jinman · Apr 13, 2002

Thanks for posting that your tractor has had the part fixed. That is exactly the news I need to hear and it will serve to build confidence in the NH community here that NH is trying to improve their product. Just yesterday I got this response from New Holland by email:


Dear Mr. Inman,

Thank you for contacting New Holland North America's Customer
Response Center.

To provide an answer to your inquiry we must request that you
provide some additional information. Please contact the Customer
Response Center at 1-888-290-7377 at your convenience, and provide
us with your mailing address and telephone number along with the
dealership that you are working with. With this additional
information we will be able to forward your information to the
correct contact. Please refer to file number 879833 when you call
to expedite your request. Our hours of operation are Monday -
Friday 8AM-8PM EST.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and we look forward to
hearing from you soon.

Regards,

Jennifer
Customer Care Representative
New Holland North America, Inc.
1-888-290-7377
comments@newholland.com


I did not get the email until today, so I will contact Jennifer on Monday to see what she has to tell me. I hope it's positive, because I really don't need another negative. I also have a fix for the thermostat problem that DocHeb posted the picture of. I will have to draw an illustration of how I fixed my thermostat and then post the drawing for comments/discussion/ideas.

Finally,/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif I have a weekend of pretty weather, so I'll be getting some seat time this weekend too./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

jinman · Apr 14, 2002

the jiggle pin may not become lodged in the thermostat

Spencer, the engine manufacturers solution sounds like "smoke and mirrors" to me. I took a different approach to fixing my thermostat and they could take a lesson and modify their thermostat so this fix isn't necessary. Here is what I did: I found a piece of thin stainless steel wire (lockwire/safety wire) and put it around the pin on the opposite side of the jiggle pin's bulb. This reduced the length of the pin enough that the pin can no longer move far enough to get under the valve lip. I cut the wire with a couple of twist loops on it so it will not come loose and end up in the coolant system (although I doubt that such a small wire would ever cause a problem). Here is an illustration of how I fixed the thermostat. I don't know why the manufacturer doesn't just shorten the pin and have the problem fixed. They probably have their tooling and process set to do it as is and don't want to incur the expense of retooling./w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

Bayrat · Apr 14, 2002

For those in need of a quick fix, I used to rap the thermostat housing with a rubber mallet if the ball stuck and that worked just fine /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif. I would have made the repair had I kept the tractor though!

spencer200 · Apr 14, 2002

Hey I am not saying its right just showing you guys what we have to deal with as dealers when it comes to the engineers at New Holland. This is what they have sent us dealers to work with. It becomes very hard to keep the customer happy all the time when the support from the manufacturer is like this. The whole problem comes back to the bean counters in Italy. Some day they might put the customer first and not the bottom line. There is a lot of talk from New Holland about customer satisfaction, but if you guys where on my side of the table you would realize the support you get comes from your dealer so find yourselfs a good one. Most every thing we do as a dealer is a struggle to be properly compensated by NH.

jinman · Apr 14, 2002

Spencer, I didn't mean that you were using "smoke and mirrors," but rather the manufacturers are doing it. Gosh! If it weren't for great dealers, we'd be left out in the cold on many of these issues. Thanks to you and others like you, we can have confidence that our warranties will be honored.

BTW - I got my tractor completely back together and everthing works perfectly...and no spare parts left over./w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif Thank goodness I had the IPC. It sure came in handy./w3tcompact/icons/clever.gif

spencer200 · Apr 14, 2002

Thanks! its nice to know we are appreciated once in a while! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

jtn · Apr 15, 2002

tc35dforme,

A couple of easier ways to keep your engine warm:
1. Block off the front grill with cardboard. Use duct tape to secure it on the inside of the hood. Cutting off the airflow should help quite a bit.
2. Run the PTO. I know this sounds corny, especially if you don't have a implement on, but the extra demand on the engine will cause it to warm up better. This will greatly increase your fuel consumption but it helps.
3. Avoid letting your tractor idle. Don't set the RPM below about 1500.

I find that if I am using my tractor hard (plowing deep snow, loader work, mowing) I can warm it up in any weather but if I am only doing light duty work (joyride, moving firewood, etc) it will stay cold. I have never tried blocking the grill but I do let the PTO run and it helps a lot.

wihakowiSteve · Apr 15, 2002

jtn, I guess I have to take exception with your advice in the matter of Boomer diesels not warming up to effecient operating temps. At this point, I think that all agree it is a design defect that allows the coolant to recirc without having the resistance of the thermostat to heat it up to temp.

1) The old "cover the radiator" solution may work as a quick fix during extremely cold weather but leaves one open to all sorts of bad consequences if it is left in place when not needed or too much is covered and the engine really needs to cool down!
2) Anything that increases my fuel consumption or puts un-needed use, wear and tear on any tool I have is undesirable and unacceptabe to me. I try to tread lightly on this earth and have no moral or economic need to squander resources when better options are available.
3) Kind of a ditto to 2) but I even more strenuously object to running my rig at any more RPMs than are needed for the task at hand. 1500 RPMs is actually at the top end of what I like to run my TC35. If I can get by with 1200rpm (which I can for a lot of tasks) I do. As far as avoiding idle, unless someone can fill me in on the logic of that one, I won't even go there. Idle is idle -- it is the speed the engine is intended to run at when sitting idle or running minimal equipment or doing light duty work!!!

I guess this came out as something of a "flame". Apologies in advance to all it may offend. I just can't sit back while folks suggest potentially dangerous fixes and recommend wasting energy and resources.
Steve!!

jinman · Apr 16, 2002

Steve, I don't think a little disagreement is "flaming." I see it more as a healthy discussion of the issues. I agree with you on all accounts except running your tractor at low RPMs. I believe there is a danger of lugging down the engine and almost every engine manufacturer recommends against that. I typically run just below 2000 RPM when doing any kind of work. When I need more "uumph" I push it up to 2500. If your work is so light that there is no danger of lugging the engine at 1200 RPM, then you might be safe. /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

jtn · Apr 17, 2002

Steve,

No offence taken. Everyone has thier own methods for dealing with things and what may work for me may not work for you.

Clearly covering the radiator is only a very cold weather solution. I only discovered running the PTO because I had my backhoe attachment on and didn't bother turning the PTO off. Yes it does burn more fuel and wear components but i found it worked. In cold weather when my tractor is idling I set it at about 1500 and about 2100 for running. Yes, it burns a little more fuel but it does keep the engine warmer.

If you prefer working on the thermostat or pinching a line that is your prerogative, I felt I would offer other options.

Soundguy · Apr 18, 2002

I can't think of any meaningfull work that can be done at idle... The 540 PTO settings is quite specific to a certain engine rpm.

I let my machine idle at somewhere around 800-1000 rpm.. I won't even drive it at 800 on flat ground... I don't want to lug the engine... 1k and up is the only way to even travel with no load.. for me anyway... I don't mind burning a little more diesel to keep from damaging the engine due to lugging..

Soundguy

"3) Kind of a ditto to 2) but I even more strenuously object to running my rig at any more RPMs than are needed for the task at hand. 1500 RPMs is actually at the top end of what I like to run my TC35. If I can get by with 1200rpm (which I can for a lot of tasks) I do. As far as avoiding idle, unless someone can fill me in on the logic of that one, I won't even go there. Idle is idle -- it is the speed the engine is intended to run at when sitting idle or running minimal equipment or doing light duty work!!!"

Anonymous Poster · Apr 19, 2002

Steve,
Reagarding the idling statement you made, there was an intersting article in a copy of Progressive Farmer. Cat, Cummins, and I think Detroit Diesel were contacted about several issues but their statements about idling were interesting. They all advised against idling over 5 minutes. If idling was absolutely needed, they advised a high idle, some computer controlled new diesels even automatically go to high idle after so many minutes.
Their reasoning was that diesels use so little fuel at idle , their internal temps fall and they no longer completely combust the fuel. The unburned fuel contaminates the oil and contriubutes to engine combustion chamber and rings deposits. Idle if you wish but after reading that I changed the way I operate my L4310.
Just offered as positive contribution only. No flames intended.
Greg H

DVerbarg · Apr 19, 2002

diesels use so little fuel at idle , their internal temps fall and they no longer completely combust the fuel. The unburned fuel contaminates the oil and contriubutes to engine combustion chamber and rings deposits

I heard the same thing quite a few years back from the mechanic who works on my parents MF275, which has a Perkins diesel engine. The engine was losing some torque and was smoking more then usual. Mechanic looked into the issue and thought there was carbon deposit build up and asked if it was being idled much. It seemed to clear itself up after hours and hours of use at PTO speeds doing hay baling. Engine exhaust was cleaner and the torque change was noticable.

Since buying my TC40D the only time it idles is when I leave the seat for a few minutes to load the FEL, change implements, etc. Otherwise the lowest I constantly run the RPMs is 1800. For mowing and FEL work it is always at the 2600 to 2700 range. Hence the need for some noise attenuation /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif.

DVerbarg · Jun 29, 2003

It happened to me! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Last weekend I was backing up with the rotary cutter and let off the pedal and the tractor turned into the energizer bunny, it just kept going and going and going.... the pedals would move they just did not have any influence on the tractor direction or speed.

So I turned the PTO off and just kept driving it backwards out of the field and back to the house. Climbed underneath looking for a stick or some other object that might have become jammed in the pedal linkage. There was no stick. Then I remembered this list that jinman started a little over a year ago. Gulped and scooted into position to look at that weld, aarrrghhh! My three year warranty ended in April. Guess this is why I bought the repair manual.

So that was last weekend. Yesterday I started the process of removing the part, but I wanted to do it faster than Jim did. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Was able to get the part partially free but just needed to remove the operator platform brace which required removing the FEL mounting bracket, that thing is heavy!

That did not give me enough room. 4 hrs later the part was off but not before doing everything that Jim mentioned: /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif removing the seat, FEL, operator's platform, rubber mat, FEL control valve (could not get the rubber mat off without doing this), disconnecting lots of electrical connections (since the wiring harness is connected to the bottom of the operator's platform), both rear wheel fenders and the turn signals, both side consoles, the side panels under the dashboard (in order to prevent gouging them while lifting the operator's platform out of the way) and probably some other items that I have convieniently forgotten.

In the end I did not have to totally remove the operator's platform, just totally loosen it so that I could prop it up 6 inches to get at the part.

During this removal process all the bolts and nuts were metric -- except for the two bolts on the part where it clamps onto transmission, they were SAE.

So at this point the part is off and the tractor looks rather dorky. Have a call into the dealer, did not call them until I had the part off (was hoping to have it off much earlier in the day, before they closed). Will see what a new one costs vs having this one re-welded. Will probably get a new one since I seemed to have damaged the end shaft on this part, most likely while trying to remove it without having to remove the entire operator's platform. Bent the very end of the shaft where the "e" clip attaches.

One notable difference between Jim's unit and mine is that Jim's pictures show a unit much cleaner than mine. Maybe I should have bought a power washer. The grease and dirt have made a lasting impression on my clothes, the shirt is history and the jeans, well lets just say they weren't my wife's favorite before yesterday.

I'm figuring that I'll be spending some quality time with my tractor the next week or so. Hope I can get it all back together in less than 8 hours, with no parts left over or missing. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

tc35dforme · Jun 29, 2003

Dave,

Did you have a partial weld on the shaft or was it fully welded?

I'm just curious as to whether those of us who got units that included a full weld ( not just tacked ) are due for failure.

Thanks,

nicklan · Jun 29, 2003

DVerbarg,
The same thing happened to me last Sat. afternoon. In my case, my TC40D would creep either forward or backward (depending on which way it was last pressed.) Thought it as a spring adjustment until it would not go anywhere but forward. So - shut it off - now it won't go because the transmission is turning and it won't go into hi or lo range without grinding the gears. So - on to the next task - beer drinking started much earlier that day. My dealer came out Tuesday to pick it up for me - no charge /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif disabled the neutral starter switch, drove it up on his trailer. I picked it up on Wednesday. Although I don't know if is a new one or rewelded, it seems to work ok. I have almost 300 hours on mine, it made it to the dealer yard in 6/2001, and my barn in Jan 2002. In a side note, while they were working on replacing a hose on my backhoe, I told them my loader valve was "sticky", while they were checking it it out, it broke off, so I have a new one of those too.

Nick

jinman · Jun 29, 2003

Oh no! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Wouldn't you know it. It happened after your warranty was gone. What a bummer. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif This part is a giant pain to replace and I'd suggest you get prepared for a struggle getting the "U" shaped piece reattached to the transmission. I could only get one bolt in mine, but it is still holding just fine. That and some stripped bolts in the side panels by some "monkey fist" at the factory were my only problems. I think you will agree with me that the platform is a royal PITA to take off. I just raised mine about 6 inches too. Getting all the actuator shafts back in the right places in the side consoles is real fun. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif They are made of soft metal, so you can easily bend them. About the time I had this job finished, I was thinking how nice the old tractors with no operator platform were to work on. ...everything right out in the open.

Well, Dave, I'm not going to rehash what I think of New Holland engineering on this part, but it made me very angry when mine broke and now I'm angry again. Heck! Wasn't it just last year that one of your front wheels broke at the hub? Wow! I know you have to be pretty disappointed with all this bad luck coming your way. I'm really sorry you have to go through this.

I don't know how much help I can be, but I normally check TBN daily. If I can offer you any advice or help I will be happy to answer any question about my reassembly. Good luck, Dave. You should NOT have to be doing this. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Just one thing I forgot. I didn't want to disconnect my loader control valve, so I just cut the platform pad in a spot that is covered by the control valve cowling. It sure made that job easier. After reassembly, you can't even see it. I kept wondering why it didn't come split from the factory.

DVerbarg · Jun 30, 2003

Did you have a partial weld on the shaft or was it fully welded?


This is an older TC40D model it was a partial weld, just two spot welds. I would assume that a full weld would be fine. I took delivery of this unit a little over three years ago and it sat on the dealer lot for at least a few months before that.

DVerbarg · Jun 30, 2003

Nick,

It would have been nice to have a dealer that supports you like that. My dealer was great with service...until they went out of business.

My new dealer has good service, more than what is required by NH, just miss the free parts dropoff and free travel for onsite service calls that I had before.