When one door closes, another opens....

[KentT]

Thanks! So far, I've only put about 10 hours on it, testing the brush cutter, moving my old 425'carcass, and finish mowing a couple acres of my hollows. I haven't had it on the hillsides yet - that is the true test.

Like any piece of used equipment, condition and maintenance are key. The center pivot joint and loader arm joints seem tight. Cosmetics are far better than the 425 I bought from PT Rich with 250 hours on it. It gave me 10 good years and over 1100 hours of good service. If this one does as well, I'll really be happy.

The machine is actually even simpler than the 425, and seems to be a far better match for my needs, and my T-8 attachments than a new 1430 would be. First, the 3" wider track (56") stock is a huge plus for my hills. The PTO uses a manual flow control valve lets me control the speed of my T-8 stump grinder, and match the 10gpm that my adapted Ingersoll/Case tiller needs. (It worked OK on the 425 but the tines spun 20% slower than designed.) My T-8 mini-hoe is identical to the T-12 one AFAIK, other than the attachment plate. (I've already upgraded it to a larger Harbor Freight 12" bucket). The T-8 snow/dirt blade should work better than with my 425 after I went to the much larger wheel motors in 1430 wheel motor boxes, giving it an even wider stance than this 1430. Meanwhile, I've added an additional one foot cut on both my brush cutter and finish mower, and this rock/dirt bucket has the same capacity as the T-8 light material bucket.

My biggest concerns are the age of the hoses (some have been replaced), and the strength of the T-8 QA on this heavier, stronger machine. Meanwhile, it has no electric cooling fan (mine had failed twice), no electric solenoid control valves nor thermostats, etc. Instead both the flow of PTO and the hydraulic oil going to the radiator-mounted cooler can be manually controlled. There's a manual bypass valve there to bypass the cooler for winter use. (There's also a 110v block heater, BTW, though it may soon need a new set of glow plugs - it's a cold natured beast.) And I love the additional room of this wider tub both for comfort and for maintenance!

If this pending sale of my other T-8 attachments goes through, I plan to buy a dedicated grapple and a landscape plane, ending up with a set of attachments that better meets my current needs.

As you can see - I am excited about its potential. Time will tell...

 

[woodlandfarms]

This is very very nice machine. Congrats. Jealous.

 

[KentT]

Well, it passed the real test drive - it will climb my hills with hot hydraulic oil. It doesn't have the torque of the 28.3ci wheel motors I put on the old 425, but it will do, at least for now. Talked to my welder this morning about the T-8 QA conversion tasks I want done, and we should be scheduling that in the next few days.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Aren't you swapping the wheel motors from the 425?

 

[KentT]

Only if I must. These 1430 wheel motors have case drains, while the ones from Surplus Center that I put on the 425 did not (wasn't plumbed for it). I'd have to have the rear two rebuilt due to heat - new seals at the very least.

Even the finish mower for this 1430 has case drains, though the brush cutter does not...

 

[woodlandfarms]

So this is a thing JJ can probably answer better and with more authority, but I went through a whole bunch of case drain drama building my Stump Grinder. It ireally is a motor design issue, not a PT Issue. If the motor has them, use it, if not, it tends to meand the motor is built to tighter tolerances is all. NOt saying you should use the motors, just saying case drain is not an issue that should be a determining factor.

 

[KentT]

I've blown the seals on these 28.3ci wheel motors at least 3 times. First time, I just bought another wheel motor from Surplus Center. The other times I had a local hydraulic shop "rebuild" them at the tune of about $200 each time. After long discussions with them, and with Terry, the reason is apparently the fact that they have no case drains. I even had the hydraulics shop see if it was possible to modify them for case drains, but it is not. Loader work, especially, where you're doing a lot of forward/reverse work, or forward/reverse on these steep hillsides, can cause spikes in the internal hydraulic pressure. With no case drains, this results in a blown seal. So, I have been trying to keep a rebuilt spare wheel motor on hand at all times, ready to go.

Using the motor for other applications may not require them.

 

[ponytug]

Case drains help not only with shock loads, but also are designed to sweep debris out of the motor. For drive motors, it helps bleed the oil out of the drive circuit and return it to the tank, taking the debris with it.

FWIW: Whether a motor has a case drain or not is about the engineering of the motor, and therefore of what the intended use is. For shock loading like drive motors, chippers, grinders, case drains help reduce the strain the motor and make them more tolerant of particles.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

Makes me want case drains! :laughing:

 

[joshlee]

Me too! Thats interesting.

Makes me want case drains! :laughing:

 

[woodlandfarms]

Very interesting and it makes sense, but when I spoke to an engineer at Bondoli he said it was a tolerance / machining issue, not a motor performance... Then again, maybe that is how I interpreted his response as he was WAY over my head when I was speaking with him...

 

[KentT]

As I was researching wheel motor upgrades for the 425 twice, I found that some series of motors have case drains standard, some are optional (simply requiring drilling/tapping the motor's body either at the factory or later), or have no provisions at all. Light duty motors commonly do not have them. Severe/heavy duty normally come standard, while medium duty may or may not. The 28.3ci White RE motors that Surplus Center was selling for about 25% of retail, apparently has no provisions for case drains.

IMO, Tazewell likely does not use case drains on the 4xx series simply due to cost savings on the plumbing required and the cost of the wheel motors themselves. The 4xx series is not intended for as heavy/demanding use as the larger tractors, and they're trying to keep them at an attractive price point. The diesels, with an expected/designed service life of 3000 hours plus, and heavier use, demand them, in comparison to a 4xx homeowner/prosumer machine with an engine designed for a 2,000 hour service life in less demanding use.

But, I used/abused my 425 far above its designed capabilities...

 

[MossRoad]

Plus, can you imagine trying to squeeze a couple more hoses through the tunnel for case drains for the front wheel motors on a 400 series? That tunnel is pretty tight already.

 

[woodlandfarms]

As my gay friends would say where there is a will there is a way.

All you would need is a single 1/4 hose. T it under the foot pedals to the motors.

 

[MossRoad]

So that means they're low pressure and won't backfeed each other, just drain to the tank?

 

[KentT]

My two front wheels and the finish mower all drain through a single 1/4" line, it appears. There's a quick coupler going into a small + fitting directly in front of the tunnel. I think I heard/read somewhere that the circuit is rated for 700 PSI - not sure of that...

 

[MossRoad]

OK. Thanks. I tell you, I learn something new here almost every day.

 

[Marks481]

My two front wheels and the finish mower all drain through a single 1/4" line, it appears.

You finish mower has a case drain? Or are you talking about the PTO return line?

 

[MossRoad]

You finish mower has a case drain? Or are you talking about the PTO return line?

I think he means there are three hoses for the finish mower. An inny, an outty, and the case drain.

 

[KentT]

Mossroad is correct. The old 3-pin 6ft finish mower has a case drain on the motor. The 5ft brush cutter does not.