What year did tractors get "complicated"?

[HawkinsHollow]

So now that I am back in the market for a tractor I am deciding between 2 camps, Used and New. And also in turn "simple" and
"complicated". I still like Bransons, they are heavier, stronger,(according to tractor data) and just as well built as most name brands. However, in my research I have run into these discussion about whether or not Branson will be here in 5-10 years. It's a bit scary to be considering dropping $18-20K on a tractor which could potentially have a dwindling support network. Regardless, that is not what I am wanting to ask. There are plenty of posts about that, I will be diving deeper into that on my own. These potential worries have led me to another question. WHEN DID TRACTORS GET COMPLICATED? I feel very comfortable working on my 94 F150 with the inline 6 cylinder 300, but I would be LOST trying to work on your 2016 F150 where you can barely see the engine. About what year did tractors make the switch from being like my old trusty 94 with inline 6 to the newer more complicated machines that are being put out today? I feel like these newer tractors have so much more to go wrong on them. One little thing and your $19K tractor is an expensive paperweight until you can get it to the dealer. I know new tractors are ultra dependable, but still... It can happen!

Sorry if this topic has been covered, my search of when did tractors get complicated did not produce any satisfactory results. That is the crux of this search feature, figuring out what to type in to find what you want.:confused2:

 

[ericm979]

A milestone in "complication" would be the switch from mechanical fuel injection to electronic fuel injection that most manufacturers made to meet >25hp Tier 4. But one could argue that electronics and software don't wear out like mechanical parts do. I'm comfortable with both mechanical and electronic systems. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. With electronic you do need to have diagnostic software. On cars and trucks the EPA mandated OBD2 port and commodity code readers or software generally works well. Not long ago one of the stick coils on my wife's VW failed. With the right software I could query the computer which told me which one I needed to replace. That's a lot handier than non electronic forms of diagnosis. But it requires a code reader and diagnostic port. While there are standards for cars and trucks there aren't for tractors. Some have OBD2 ports, some do not.

Bransons still use mechanical fuel injection. The only computer is a simple one that monitors the DOC+DPF, and it will run without it.

As far as Branson going away in X years, it looks like TYM is putting a lot of resources into Branson (see link below). It's hard to say where any corporation will be in the far future. You're taking a chance with all of them. However the CUT market is strong now and it doesn't look like that's changing any time soon.

Branson Tractors Aims to be Market Leader Within 5 Years | Rural Lifestyle Dealer

 

[HawkinsHollow]

WOW! Yeah, that article is interesting. Doesn't sounds like a company that the parent company is aiming to dissolve. Thank you for that link!!

And It sounds like there is a sliding scale when it comes to complexity in tractor brands then? And Bransons are at the lower end of that complexity scale?

 

[ericm979]

Bransons lack the electronic fuel injection that the other brands have. But that's just one small part of a tractor, and EFI is a well known commodity product now. There's a lot of mechanical and hydraulic parts in modern 4wd CUTs. To get the features they enable you'll have to have that complexity.

 

[EddieWalker]

2012 was the last year of Tier 3 smog, but their are a few brands and models out there that where able to keep building tractors a few years later before having to go to Tier 4. Before that, I'm not really sure of a solid line when they started adding a lot of meaningless electronics that cause so many issues that could be avoided if they didn't exist. My tractor is a 2003 and after a couple of years chasing electrical gremlins, I removed every wire and just installed the basics so it will start and run. I used a choke cable to turn the engine off. I really enjoy my tractor now that it starts every time I want to use it!!!!

I read that some new tractors have computers on their tractors that will not allow the owner of the tractor to do basic repairs without the proper codes. I'm worried that this might become more common with all brands and eventually the manufacturer will severely limit what we can do to our tractors, or fix them ourselves.

My next tractor will probably be a Kubota. They sell half of all compact tractors for a reason. But they will also be around when we are long gone. Parts will always be available. If it's not a Kubota, it will have to be a lot better tractor for a lot better price.

This is a local company that does auctions almost once a month with people showing up from all over the country.

http://www.jandksales.net/inventory...=2951752&etid=1&dlr=1&lo=3&sfc=0&ssc=0&snai=0

They have a pretty steady turn over and new tractors added to the website every month. There are some really interesting deals with tractors before 2012 with low hours that I would be looking at if I was ready to buy. I also think it's a good source to know what used tractors are selling for.

 

[Tractorable]

What year did tractors get "complicated"?

There’s a 2013 Kubota L4060HSTC for sale on TractorHouse that currently has 8891 hours on it. Asking price ~$20K. These modern “complicated” tractors are so reliable now they’ll probabaly out live most of us.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/ListingsDetail/Detail.aspx?lp=TH&OHID=24171047

 

[ruffdog]

There are plenty of restored vintage tractors out there that are "easy" to work on.

 

[ericm979]

You can still get parts for 8Ns made in the '40s and '50s even though it's been decades since Ford made tractors.

Modern conveniences like electric over hydraulic independent PTO are nice (and arguably safer). While there are more components than the simple PTO in a tractor like the 8N they're all ones that have been used for a long time and are well understood.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Buddy of mine has an '86 Kubota L2850, bought new. It has <2000 hours, and has had a rough life... ode hard and put away wet, as the phrase goes, and still runs like a top. Has a few electrical gremlins due to a fire 20 years ago, glow plug timer/relay is affected, but has been one tough tractor.

Complex? Not really, by today's standards, quite simple. But still enough electronic "fluff" to make perfect operation as factory installed make it not work right, as in glow plugs not working. I'd buy one of this vintage in a heartbeat.

 

[JasperFrank]

80's to early 90's. I don't even buy cars newer than '93. I'm stuck in time, as these are the last years of things fixable by a DIY mechanic.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^
Funny thing, back in 1988 I heard all sorts of complaints because there was no carburetor or points to adjust, so how is the average guy supposed to keep a vehicle running past 50,000 miles?

1939 was when they got complicated. They had all of those fancy pistons, valves, and carburetors which you had to adjust and replace when they went bad; clutches that you had to adjust, and change now and then if you abused them enough. Before then you just had to feed a little hay once in a while,and when they got old you could shoot them and eat them.

 

[sixdogs]

Re: What year did tractors get &quot;complicated&quot;?

There痴 a 2013 Kubota L4060HSTC for sale on TractorHouse that currently has 8891 hours on it. Asking price ~$20K. These modern 田omplicated tractors are so reliable now they値l probabaly out live most of us.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/ListingsDetail/Detail.aspx?lp=TH&OHID=24171047

That has to be a typo. Tractor looks too good. I'm thinking 891 hours.

 

[ruffdog]

80's to early 90's. I don't even buy cars newer than '93. I'm stuck in time, as these are the last years of things fixable by a DIY mechanic.

The early 70's was a nice time period for working on vehicles as it was before emissions. Then came the emission carbs, buried EGR's under miles of vacuum hoses, and those troublesome catalytic converters.

We have come a long way and our vehicles are way more dependable now.

 

[4570Man]

Usually I’m not a fan of needless complication but tractors have come a long way since back then. I’d buy the tractor you like and move on. It’s a good thing the old stuff is easy to work on because you sure get to do a lot of of. I have a 2011 “complicated” backhoe and my grandpa has a 1980s “simple” backhoe. I have a turn key machine and he has a turn wrenches machine.

 

[ruffdog]

One option Deere has is RTP (return to position) control of its loader. You can 4 positions in the computer.

 

[deserteagle71]

I have a turn key machine and he has a turn wrenches machine.

^Love it! That's been my experience also!

 

[ptsg]

HawkinsHollow, you mentioned you like Branson tractors, well, that puts you already on the right track.

You don't get any simpler new tractor than a Branson. It has little to no electronics at all. Only a few switches, relays and fuses but that's easy to fix. The only computer it gets it's the DPF data logger but since it's a mechanical injected engine, it doesn't care if it runs with or without the data logger and DPF can. Some people just replace it with a muffler and let the engine run happier, this allows them to run the tractor at the RPM they want and not running wide open just to keep the DPF happy and wasting a lot more fuel.

Other than that, it's pretty much like an old tractor as in, easy to fix and are heavy duty. While also having all the new features new tractors have. Independent PTO, telescopic stabilizers, power steering, etc..

 

[Bocephous]

Re: What year did tractors get &quot;complicated&quot;?

That has to be a typo. Tractor looks too good. I'm thinking 891 hours.

The picture of the hour meter on the tractor shows 8890.4 hours.

 

[rScotty]

Re: What year did tractors get &quot;complicated&quot;?

As to, "What year did tractors get complicated?" It wasn't a specific year, it was different years for different mechanical systems. You can sort of span a period though. I think it would be fair to say that in the early to mid 1990s most tractors were still as simple as they had been for decades. And by 2005 or a few years after, most of the new ones on the market had become more complicated.

A big reason why you can't go by date is that that tractor age isn't figured like automobiles or people. Tractor models tend to be made in a factory production run and then warehoused until they are sold - sometimes many years later. It is considered that a tractor is "born" brand new the year when they are sold by the dealer for the first time. Lots of commercial machines are made that way. Warranty starts when it is sold. That means if a typical model run for a certain model tractor is ten years, that the machine sold as a 1995 and the tractor sold as a 2005 could conceivably been built the same day back in the 90s. It depends on where they were warehoused.

Anyway, complexity depends on the sytem. For electrics, it got complicated when the old alternator, voltage regulator and battery system with it's analogue gauges began to be replaced with digital circuits and digital readouts as gauges. It wasn't long after that when engine computers became involved with fuel injection timing and emissions.
For simplicity in electrics, look for a tractor with generator or alternator, voltage regulator, battery, and analogue gauges. And no computer.

Simple diesel engines are mechanically injected. The fuel injection pump has a group of tubes leading from it to each injector. Inside the pump is a multilobe cam that is timed by it's mechanically locked position on a shaft so that it will deliver fuel to whichever injector's time it is to fire. Diesels were made that way for a long time. The simple ones still are.
None of the simple engines have any pollution or emission controls beyond a simple EGR valve. Yes, the simple diesels do smoke.

Simple transmissions use gears to transmit the power from engine to wheels. Complicated power transmissions are hydraulic...called hydrostatic, or HST.
BTW, power shift transmissions are generally considered to be in the simple transmission group.

Steering - there have been fewif any changes in power steering technology in the last 30 years. If you have a FEL, you want power steering. Same can be said of 4wd....although keep in mind that the older 2wd tractors tend to be heavier and all have a mechanically locking rear axle .... which means that they can do 90% of the work of a 4wd and can be gotten for much less dollars.
And of course 2wd means they are way less complex.

Wheels and axles. Here is where complexity is reversed. The older tractors tended to have more ways to change the width of the wheelbase than the newer ones do. But this is something that varies more with the brand than with the era. If your land is hilly, you want a tractor's wheels to be as wide as possible. Hillsides are any tractor's downfall. Tire width and a low center of gravity is something that most newbies don't even think about, but it just might be the most important single thing about their new machine.

If I was buying new today, I'd be looking only at 4WD, and mostly at HST. Computer-controlled engines are a fact of life.But if I was buying used and needed to save money while still being able to get the work done I fure wouldn't overlook an otherwise good machine just because it was an older 2wd with a gear shift transmission and hoperully it would have a a FEL and Power steering. And if I was really strapped for cash, a lot of work can still be done with 2WD, gas engine, gear shift, and a good 3pt hitch with a 3pt back bucket. But now we have gone past simplicity vs complexity and have arrived back to tractors from the 1970s to the mid-90s that will probably require some mechanical attention.

Enjoy,
rScotty

 

[Tractorable]

Re: What year did tractors get &quot;complicated&quot;?

The picture of the hour meter on the tractor shows 8890.4 hours.

For a 2013 tractor, that’s an average of 4hrs of use per day, every day, for the past six years.

That’s a lot of use, and commendable for Kubota given the tractors good overall appearance.