What would be the best way to accomplish this?

RAW · Jan 11, 2006

Here's the deal:

I've got a few miles of trails through mountainous terrain. The trails are leftover from logging/skidding.
Some of these trails now have saplings growing up on them, along with lots of briars. The saplings are of the "devil's walking stick" variety and are all probably 3" diameter or smaller.

I'd like to keep these trails open. What would be the best combination of tractor and implements for the job?

I've thought of a rotary or flail type brushcutter for the rear of the tractor. Along with a FEL for the front-end. I could use a wide bucket to push the saplings down long enough to drive over them and then let the cutter chop it all up. Then I could come back through with a combination of a root rake grapple and a chipper and chip the downed material right back onto the trails.

I'd obviously need aggressive tread tires that were foam-filled. My concern here is the damage to my undercarriage and the fact that the trail might then be full of sharpened "stakes" aka stumps. And while the stakes might not give me a flat, they'll tear the tire rubber to shreds. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

In a perfect world (where I had unending amounts of money), one of those ASV skidsteers would be more all-terrain friendly and I could use a tree-cutter attachment like a Tushogg. Then I could cut and mulch all in one pass.

Thoughts? (please tell me you have some /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

RAW · Jan 12, 2006

Here are some links to pics of the trails and terrain:

Trail
Buddy's Jeep on another trail
More friends on another trail section
Same trail
Friends on another trail
Wife walking up another trail
more friends on another trail
Oops on the trail
still more trails

Egon · Jan 12, 2006

Think the loader bucket with a tooth bar and rear blade/box blade would work well for getting the trails in nice shape. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon

tjkadar · Jan 12, 2006

From what I saw, I would just brush hog the trails with a heavy duty to medium duty brush hog. Should chop everything up rather nicely. Then maybe a good box blade and perhaps a root grapple if you are so inclined.

RAW · Jan 12, 2006

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of the more choked areas. Those areas have the 2-3" diameter thorn-trees growing up in the middle of the trail.
Would a FEL bucket cut these trees?

IslandTractor · Jan 12, 2006

How about a Powertrac 425 or 422 with brush hog and grapple attachments. The hilly nature of the terrain argues in favor of an articulated tractor and as you are not doing any "pulling" of Ag equipment, there is really no downside to the Powertrac. Ask the same question on the Powertrac forum and I am quite sure the owners there will point out just how effective that machine is for the type of work you are proposing.

frank_f15 · Jan 12, 2006

JUST wondering if , hiring someone with a small dozer to do the initial clearing, and use your tractor, to finish off and maintain the trail, might not be a better way to go?

tjkadar · Jan 12, 2006

With a Bush-Whacker rotary mower, you'll be able to handle stuff up to 4" in diameter without a problem. Of course, that is if your tractor can handle it. If you get a good root grapple, you can also dig ('root out') 4" sized stuff without too much work.

If you have the room in the budget, I would seriously look at Antonio Carraro Tractors for working on slopes and/or steep hills. They are amazing tractors that pack a lot of horsepower and features into a small, stable package.

There is also an option of renting equipment to get the initial work done and then keeping things clear with something a little less rugged. There is a company that mounts a big, wheeled drum with grinding teeth on the front of a tracked vehicle. The machine mulches all your brush and trees (it can take down some BIG tree too) leaving you with little or no cleanup. The mulch helps prevent erosion and you don't tear up your soil.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words... so click on the link and it will explain better what I'm trying to say. There are a lot of ways to spend your money. We just need to find the one that makes the most sense.

BB_TX · Jan 12, 2006

I have cut a lot of brush and small saplings with my rotary cutter, and as you guessed, it does sometimes leave sharp "stakes" sticking up. I try to avoid these areas with my ATV so as to not ruin a tire.
You might try something like the attached picture. I don't have one and did not make this one. There have been several similar posted in the past and I don't remember who to posted this one. It just yanks the saplings out of the ground. Some fit on the 3ph, some made to mount on the front. But for "miles of trails" it may be prohibitively slow. As someone else mentioned, it may be a good investment to have a dozer make a pass on it first.

RAW · Jan 12, 2006

The Antonio Carraro tractors look fantastic. I agree totally. But there aren't any dealers nearby and it's impossible to find pricing info for them online. And since dealerships aren't close by, I'd be concerned about service and parts.

As for the big drum mulcher you're talking about: That's where I actually STARTED looking! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif From what I hear, skidsteers are terrible on uneven/steep terrain. And the wheel-loaders that can handle some of those mulchers are VERY expensive. There are great units out there from Loftness, Tushogg, FAE, etc.

I've also seriously considered a compact excavator (like Kubota's KX-121) paired with a flail-head mower (capable of 4"). But then I couldn't run a PTO chipper or anything like that. And I'm concerned about extra maintenance costs on tracked vehicles.

If only there was one perfect machine . . . .

As for rental services or companies that do land clearing: Does anyone have a recommendation for a place in Western North Carolina? I haven't had much luck finding anyone in that area who does more than bulldozing.

I'm meeting with a land management firm next week. I'm hoping that they will have some good suggestions for clearing and working the property. Cuz ultimately it would be much easier for me to own a smaller piece of equipment for maintaining the trails.

tjkadar · Jan 13, 2006

There are a couple land clearing companies in SC. There is one in Lexington and another in Charleston. Look at the last link I posted. The mulchers are not on a skid steer frame. They are built more like a tank. These beasts are capable of handling the toughest terrain out there and with a ground pressure of 2.5 psi, they wont sink if the ground is a little wet.

The Antonio Carraro is a unique tractor for the US. It is much more popular in Europe. The motors are Perkins (for the most part). Warranty and service on the engines can be handled at any Perkins shop. The other warranty and service items are a bit different. From what I was made to understand, parts would be overnighted to you or your shop and then your shop or you would perform the work and Antonio would reimburse that particular shop.

Of course, that leaves all sorts of unanswered questions. I honestly would not be worried about parts or service, but I would be concerned about any warranty issue that might crop up.

The tractors are not cheap. They'll run about $4000 to $8000 more then a tractor of similar HP from another manufacture. Of course, you wont get a reversible cockpit or all the other very nifty and neat hydraulic and electronic options the Antonio Carraro come with either.

We looked long and hard at Antonio Carraro tractors, but our terrain and budget could not justify the price premium for the tractor.

I think the best bet would be to rent something for the initial work and then buy a good tractor with a grapple, rotary cutter, and box blade for maintenance work.

MikeD74T · Jan 13, 2006

"If only there was one perfect machine . . . .

As for rental services or companies that do land clearing: Does anyone have a recommendation for a place in Western North Carolina?" I haven't had much luck finding anyone in that area who does more than bulldozing."

Check with a local power company. Powerline right of ways are usually kept clear with excavators with drum mowers that will cut ant tree to chips.
As for keeping the trails clear, once the big stuff is gone ATV mounted weed wipers & Round-up work great for selective brush killing. Select a height that kills the brush but allows cover crops, grasses, etc to grow.

RAW · Jan 14, 2006

( The mulchers are not on a skid steer frame. They are built more like a tank. These beasts are capable of handling the toughest terrain out there and with a ground pressure of 2.5 psi, they wont sink if the ground is a little wet.

)

Actually, I know exactly what machines they're using. They're Gyro-tracs. I talked with a Gyro-trac salesman for about 20 minutes recently.
They're amazing machines. And if I was going to go into business doing land-clearing, I'd definitely want one of these in my fleet.

The GT13 is $180,000 MSRP.
The GT25 is $310,000.

Actually, these machines would be fantastic for property flipping. You could buy a weed-choked jungle-looking property and turn it into a park in a matter of days.

Check out their website and videos.

As for land-clearing companies in Western N.C, I'm going to start calling companies in the Asheville phonebook. I'm starting to agree with some of you that having most of the work done by an experienced crew will be far cheaper and easier than buying one piece of equipment and doing it myself. ****, I guess if the price is right on the trail-building, I may just keep my 4x4 truck and rent a chipper now and again to haul around the trails. Then buy an ATV-type mower.

We'll see.

tjkadar · Jan 14, 2006

There are a couple outfits that rent those Gyro-tracs. They'll run you about the same as a comparatively priced excavator.

rk246 · Jan 14, 2006

I have found that it all depends on how fast you want to accomplish this, Tractor with the grapple and mower will do it, it will just be slower going. You want it done quick rent a cat or a skid steer. I enjoy going out on my tractor and doing it slow, so no big deal. I think I will rent a trachoe to dig all the big stumps out though.

RAW · Jan 15, 2006

( There are a couple outfits that rent those Gyro-tracs. They'll run you about the same as a comparatively priced excavator. )

That would be a blast! Like someone handing you the keys to a Ferrari for a day! Would you happen to have any contact info for places that would rent the GyroTrac? I may contact some of the dealers. I believe there's on in Seneca and another in Knoxville.

MarkV · Jan 15, 2006

Raw,
From what I could see of the trails I would send a small dozer in there. They would have no trouble with the brush and could work on any other problems caused by water at the same time. Around here a small dozer and operator would be less then $800 per day and could do much more than a tractor and mower. After a dozer took care of the first clean up you could mow it with a tractor just fine.

MarkV

tjkadar · Jan 15, 2006

Land Clearing Services, Inc
Charleston, South Carolina

Tel: (843) 345-5000
Fax: (843) 573-2008

Alex Oakes - Operations / Contracts
aoakes@landclearingservices.net

These folks might be a good place to start. They sometimes have used equipment to sell and they might also do rentals. Being in the business, they might be able to point you in the right direction for a Gyro-trak rental closer to home.