What NOT TO do!!

[RonMar]

In my estimation, a loader designed for a particular tractor should not break while using it for any pushing or lifting job on that tractor, if it does, it is not designed properly for that tractors power. They are supposed to lift and push stumps, rocks, dirt, or anything that happens to need pushed or lifted.

You give me a solid stump, gravel pile, large rock and a tractor/FEL and I could pretzel just about any loader in a heartbeat thru improper use... They are not bulldozers, they are loaders. The geometry of the structure is all wrong to use the traction force of the tractor to apply force to the blade edge. Loader arms are at a pretty steep angle when the blade is near the ground This puts the lift arms under a tremendous side load(weakest mode) Bulldozer arms by comparison are in compression when the blade is on the ground(stronger mode) and heavily re-enforced for the task.

Dan that is unfortunate, but I have to agree with Greg. The only mechanical cause I see that could possibly account for a second similar failure would be the loader control safety pressure set too high. Did you check the pressure release point of the loader safety valve after the first failure? A valve set to release at too high a pressure could hydraulically work the structure to death and that is probably the weakest point on the structure. If yours has a prince 5200 series valve on it, the safety valve was probably set at the factory for 2000PSI. It was probably set using a common hydraulic oil. If you are still using the chinese fluids, that thicker oil could also effect the safety release pressure applied to the system when the valve opens.

If the max pressure was OK, then I would have to guess that the blade was not parallel to the line of travel when pushing ahead into whatever it was you were pushing against. First rule: Don't apply any more force to the structure than you could apply with the hydraulics while setting stationary.
The hydraulic safety dosn't work unless you are trying to move a load hydraulically. Even if you were working the control, the load check valves in the valve body prevent the fluid from flowing the opposite way of that commanded (load weight overpowering hydraulic pump).

The 254/284 has around 1300 pounds of traction force. If the bucket bottom/edge is not parallel to the line of travel and pointed downward significantly, digging the bucket edge into the ground would be the same load on the curl cylinder and structure as trying to curl that same 1300# at the bucket edge.

The jinma ZL-20 FEL is rated to lift 875# and I would bet that is at the bucket attach pins, not out at the bucket edge. They rate the breakout force at 2200#, but they define that as the "load at which entire system will collapse" I have not looked at many other loader specs, but I doubt there is a loader of this size out there rated to curl 1300+ pounds on the bucket edge, let alone lift it. Trying to lift that much weight out on the bucket edge would lift the rear wheels off the ground on this size tractor anyway. These rateings could also be exceeded by bouncing a heavily loaded bucket over rough terrain by going too fast. That 1300 pounds of traction force is also in creeper gear. Any appreciable forward momentum and you could easilly exceed that much force(ask the gentelman who pretzeled his rear blade on a stump while moveing along too fast).

That being said, I have removed many many stumps with a FEL and I have removed quite a few using this same loader and tractor combination(that is it in my avitar). I took out a large fir tree last weekend and was moveing around chunks of wood on my 30" tine fork bucket that were so heavy, the tractor was light enough in the rear end to not have enough traction to get up the gravel driveway in 2WD(one wheel or the other would loose traction). I was also carefull not to let the load bounce as those accelerations could be devistating to the structure(and the tractor front axle). I don't back and ram with it(nor would I with any FEL) and I only apply loads to the edge of the blade(like slicing cheese with a knife). In the 18 months I have used mine, I have regularly brought the tractor to a halt with the FEL while pushing against immovable objects(with tires trying to dig their way back to their country of origin. I always do engagement work at a slow bell, because momentum is such a killer.

 

[JohnS]

FishMasterDan,

Have them fix it again, and then sell it. This loader is not going to work for you. I agree with the earlier posts, this loader is inferior to just about every other FEL out there. Buy a Koyker 140 or like design. While no FEL is indestructable, this one has serious drawbacks.

JohnS

 

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

FishMasterDan,

Have them fix it again, and then sell it. This loader is not going to work for you. I agree with the earlier posts, this loader is inferior to just about every other FEL out there. Buy a Koyker 140 or like design. While no FEL is indestructable, this one has serious drawbacks.

JohnS

I agree 100% .....

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[jwnge]

You give me a solid stump, gravel pile, large rock and a tractor/FEL and I could pretzel just about any loader in a heartbeat thru improper use... They are not bulldozers, they are loaders.... I agree they are not bulldozers, but if matched to the power of the tractor, they should not bend or break, unless you just don't care if you break it. My tractor will stop lifting or pushing long before it bends, of course if I were trying, I could probably twist it by lifting on just one side of the bucket. What I was saying is, this loader is not strong enough for his tractor.

 

[fishmasterdan]

I know I what was doing the second time around was too much for a normal loader. I was pushing dirt (mostly mud), I was in 2 wheel drive in a large mud hole.

I am going to fix it my self this time and put in 1/4 metal not 1/8" like is on there.

The brackets that hold the tilt ram on just peel off like a tin can.

I thought about selling it but I really like the hydraulics.

The crazy thing is the loader is made in the USA is about the only problem I have had with the tractor.

 

[JohnS]

Even after rebuilding this fel, you will need to keep in mind it is a very light duty fel and not put it in "over stress" type situations.

Along with the significant bracing to that center cyl, you need to replace those pivot pins. They are using only 3pt attach clips. Those clips tend to pop and disappear (fall off) over time. The pin will rotate from use, and work its way out. Murphy says it will come out at the worst possible time.

Take a photo of the side of the fel and a detailed one of how it mounts to the tractor. I would guess that it doesn't have rear axle supports, too. If you beef up that front cyl enough, you are placing the stress further back, where if not designed/built right, can be a more expensive repair and/or more dangerous to the operator.

 

[Carld]

JohnS and Ranch Hand are right. Just fix it up or have the place you bought it fix it and sell it. Then buy a Koyker or Great Bend FEL. The Great Bend is made by the Bush Hog co. and it is very well built. The Koyker is very well built also. They are both capable of hard work. It's hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Athough it has been done I am told.

 

[TobaccoRoad]

Wow, I can't believe they make steel this weak. If the FEL will fit the tractor, it should withstand the power of the tractor. How do you spell Koyker? Answer=C H I P
Get a well made Koyker from Artrac.com

I love mine......

TR

 

[Soundguy]

Wow, I can't believe they make steel this weak.

Just about as weak or as strong as you want to pay for, grade wise.

If the FEL will fit the tractor, it should withstand the power of the tractor.

Hmm.. I don't agree with that. Just because an implement is sized to fit a tractor does not in any way imply that the mere 'fit' will somehow magically protect the implement from all damage.

I have plenty of implements that are sized for my tractors that can become expensive metal pretzles if I put the pedal down.

Look at industrial and earthwork equipment. Take pay loaders ( rubber tire front end loaders ).. We use jd and cat loaders.. 544/644 size. These are dedicated front end loaders.. that is.. the laoder is made as aprt of the machine... It's -QUITE- easy to damage the bucket, dogbone, lifting arms, or cyl if you use the tool wrong. In the last year we have had 3 rapairs of lift arms ( had to bend out and align bore to true ).. and a broken dogbone and bent piston. This is with skilled operators just pushing the machine hard.

An inexperienced operator can do evenmore damage in a shorter amount of time. I've seen a new guy near ruin a 75K$ machine before lunch...

So.. I think your concept of magical protection of the loader merely based on the fact that it is sized for the machine is .. uh.. far fetched and sheer lunacy... or at best.. very wishfull thinking.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Wow.. got any pics of the 2nd damaged areas?

the makers of that fel must be quite embarissed about the very poor performance of their product.. that is.. assuming it was a product defect caused failure, and not some other factor.. etc..

Soundguy

I know I what was doing the second time around was too much for a normal loader. I was pushing dirt (mostly mud), I was in 2 wheel drive in a large mud hole.

I am going to fix it my self this time and put in 1/4 metal not 1/8" like is on there.

The brackets that hold the tilt ram on just peel off like a tin can.

I thought about selling it but I really like the hydraulics.

The crazy thing is the loader is made in the USA is about the only problem I have had with the tractor.

 

[Gerifalte]

If you don't want to spend a lot of money on a Koyker you may want to consider selling your loader and getting the Jinma loader. I just saw them on eBay for about 2,100 + pretty reasonable shipping rates.

 

[JohnS]

While the ZL-20 is structurly superior to his loader, it sounds like he values very smooth hydraulics, (especially joystick model) in which case I would not recommended it. The Koyker has a number of other advantages over a ZL-20, too. Price might not be that much different for a Koyker 140 drop shipped. Worth checking, anyway.

 

[fishmasterdan]

Sorry about not keeping things updated here.

I have been without power for 4 days (snow storm).

I had to use the tractor to remove SEVERAL trees so I temp. fixed the tractor to use the loader. So I wont be getting any pictures of the recent damage. I just welded a piece of angel iron over the cheesy metal that was there.

I am still without power but I got a generator.

Anyway this recent storm WA got has got the internet off and on at unknow times. Will report back win thing are more stable.......

 

[vallyfarm]

I have never had one of these small tractors, but I did take the loader off my Case 211B (25 HP) and installed it on a 1600 Oliver (60 HP) and then proceeded to use EVERY BIT that the tractor could muster to pull stumps, dig rocks,and buldoze a large rock and heavy clay berm (undisturbed) at full throtle in 3rd gear. MAJOR,MAJOR abuse! Other than scraped paint, NO problems at all!!! If a loader frame folds up like that under ANY usage, it is built WRONG. A little Jinma should never be able to generate enough power to twist that loader frame. This is just my opinion, no facts were used.Mike

 

[SPIKER]

Vally not nessecarly true, the hydraulics and tractor weight CAN and DO bust up a lot of things.

I have my loader ( ZL-20 ) tweeked by gouging into and removing concrete blocks 24" x 18" x 42" deep. I dug them 1/2 out and then proceeded to shear off and or smash loost the tops and or remove them all depending if they broke away or came out... now THAT is some loader/tractor abuse. (I just recently paid for some of that abuse with a sheared off front axel. yep it twisted off the front wheel so try & not say that it was because the china tractors are junk. I'm sure I would have broken ANY tractor and most prior to this with the abuse it's taken...

anyhow the single cylinder does seem to be a poor design, I would add a 2nd cylinder & move them oputboard onto the lift arms not on the center brace...

mark M

 

[vallyfarm]

SPIKER - I in NO WAY meant anything about the tractor at all!!! I've never used one, nor known anybody that has. My point is that a sub-compact ANYTHING shouldn't be able to destroy a loader that was designed/built properly. My Oliver is almost 12,000 lbs. That has enough power/weight to mess up equipment quickly. A 25 hp. sub-com. does not have enough weight to put enough force onto a properly made loader to twist the loader frame up into a train wreck, and defenatley not if all that was done was to curl the bucket with a little foward motion! Those tires would just slip HOURS before that loader frame should tweek. Mike

 

[thingy]

These 25 h.p jinmas tractors ain't that big,,but they ain't no subcompact tractor,,they ain't no fluffed up riding mower,,course they ain't in same catagory as that case of course,just thought I'd throw that in for those who havn't seen one.
Second,where is he going to sell a broken up little loader,,might be able to give it away,,if he goes to the trouble of fixing it up,,might as well keep it.
Just goes to show you,,american or chinese,they all break,,thing of it is,,that steel may have come from china,,,and the chinese loaders might be from an american design.
I always did think that you would be asking for trouble in one way or other by getting a loader on one of these littler tractors,I ain't got one,didn't want one for that reason on my 254.,,If its on there,you are going to use it for things other than lifting a few hundred lbs of loose dirt or snow,,which is about all they are suited for...thingy

 

[Soundguy]

Unfortunately.. I have to agree with 'thingy' A 25hp tractor is probably not a SCUT.. but rather a full CUT.

Still... Just about any tractor// scut or not.. can probably tear up most implements sized for it.. if you operate the tractor/implement incorrectly... Nothing that is ground engaging is bulletproof...

Soundguy

SPIKER - I in NO WAY meant anything about the tractor at all!!! I've never used one, nor known anybody that has. My point is that a sub-compact ANYTHING shouldn't be able to destroy a loader that was designed/built properly. My Oliver is almost 12,000 lbs. That has enough power/weight to mess up equipment quickly. A 25 hp. sub-com. does not have enough weight to put enough force onto a properly made loader to twist the loader frame up into a train wreck, and defenatley not if all that was done was to curl the bucket with a little foward motion! Those tires would just slip HOURS before that loader frame should tweek. Mike

 

[thingy]

Soundman,so glad a guy with all your tractor knowledge agreeed with little ole me,[sleep better now].
It ain't the h.p. of the tractor [to my way of thinking] that makes it a sub,small,or whatever,,,,its the size and weight,,,my sears riding mower is 25 h.p,,,,what I'm getting at is a jinma 25 h.p. is a big tractor compared to those little bx kabotos or whatever they are called,,,,mine uses a 5 ft hog,,a 5 ft tiller,,a 6 ft heavy duty blade,,,,
you got your great big tractors,,your big tractors,,your average size tractors,,your small tractors,,and than you got them subcompacts or whatever they are called,,suped up riding mowers is what I call them,,,the jinma 254 is a small tractor,,,thingy

 

[Soundguy]

I usually judge by physical size.. not specifically weight or hp.. generally though.. all 3 go hand in hand. .. However.. the small frame of the bx kicks it into SCUT category.. even if it's hp is a bit higher than some other SCUT's.

Soundguy