What Caused This Wood Deck Failure?

[Runner]

Pressure treatment of wood only treats the exterior 1/8-1/4" or so.

I think this explains why the 1x boards used in the skirting held up so well. The treatment process penetrates more of the wood in this size board, from an overall percentage standpoint. After 13 years, they all still look brand new.

The demolition process is going well. All I have left to do is unscrew the main beam (built-up, (2) 2x10 screwed together) from the mounting brackets.

I was thinking about possibly leaving the 4 concrete piers to set a bench or something on, but I want them gone too. So, that will be a project for the backhoe, which is always fun...

I am finding that a chainsaw is very handy for deck demolition.

Will be trying to fit it all in a 20 cu yd dumpster, including the concrete piers. Not sure if I can do it, but I am pretty good at packing, so maybe... If I have any trouble, I might try just running some of the 2 x 6's through the wood chipper.

I am re-using one of the old stairs at the back door until I have a chance to build the new landing/stairway.

 

[Diggin It]

Not sure of your budget, but have you considered raising that to the door level to eliminate the steps? Block wall, or maybe a poured foundation wall, then fine crushed stone to fill it to level. Then your pavers/patio stones on top. Slight slope away from the house for drainage.


But if I'm seeing an exposed stud wall, that may not work.

 

[civilian]

Cover your ledger board with white trim metal. Jon

 

[newbury]

Just a thought - could you build a multiple tier deck, so when you step out it's level for several feet at least, then you can go down a level to the concrete.
And build it so the upper level is has good air circulation.

 

[Runner]

Not sure of your budget, but have you considered raising that to the door level to eliminate the steps? Block wall, or maybe a poured foundation wall, then fine crushed stone to fill it to level. Then your pavers/patio stones on top. Slight slope away from the house for drainage.

I like the way you are thinking, but honestly, it's just not worth it to me. It's not like we want to do a lot of entertaining out there. However, nextdoor neighbors house was built very much as you describe, except the raised rear patio is actually a concrete slab supported by foundation walls atached to the house. If I were building this type of house new, that is what I would do.

 

[Runner]

Cover your ledger board with white trim metal. Jon

Good thought. My intention is to cut and remove the ledger everywhere but where needed for the new stairway, then fix the siding. I have some spare pieces of siding, but haven't looked at the stash yet to see if there is enough to do the job.

Just in case, I have been investigating and found that the original siding was made by a company called Alside, which is apparently still in buisness and still sells the same pattern and color. Problem is, I can't find a distributor. The siding is identified in their literature as "Odyssey Plus Premium Vinyl Siding - Double 5" Dutch Lap in Platinum Gray".

I only need to install 4 pieces to do the fix, but have to be able to buy it first. Would hate to have to hire a siding company just to do this.

 

[Runner]

Just a thought - could you build a multiple tier deck, so when you step out it's level for several feet at least, then you can go down a level to the concrete.
And build it so the upper level is has good air circulation.

Good idea. Problem is, the concrete patio is just too small. By the time you build a partial deck over it, there isn't any room for table/chairs etc. on the concrete. And, I'm really limited on being able to expand the concrete because there is a swale immediately adjacent to two of the three exposed edges of the existing slab, so I can't really make it bigger in those two directions.

Previous owner had a big, wood stairway at the door, probably about 4' x 6' that seemed to take up the whole patio.

Believe me, I spent a LOT of time thinking about this situation 13 years ago before deciding on building the deck. Trying to get some more space was the reason for designing it with the 18" cantilever. I looked at all kinds of ideas for expanding the slab, but couldn't (and still can't) see anything that really works. However, now that I am forced back to the slab, maybe I will be able to come up with something.

If not, I will just go back with a smaller landing/stair and call it good....

 

[Runner]

Broke out the 2520 with backhoe yesterday and removed the main beam and 4 concrete piers, plus the two chunks of concrete installed to anchor the bigger stair.

This completes the demolition process (except for removing the ledger board). Now need to get a dumpster out here. Sticking point for me is dumpster companies don't allow concrete in anything bigger than a 20 yard dumpster, so I'm going to try to make it all fit in one of those.

Can't wait to get this garbage out of here...

 

[ultrarunner]

40 years ago I replaced the fences at several rentals and rebuilt 2 small decks.

The lumber was the Green Treated with 40 year warranty and I kept the receipts and tags thinking I would collect.

Not a single failure and expect many years remaining.

12 years ago I did a small deck and a fence with "Sunwood" brown treated and it's all bad...

 

[EddieWalker]

Before committing to concrete, I would seriously think about building out of wood again. From everything I've seen in your pictures, you know how to build a quality deck. You just made one mistake, and that was the airflow issue. If you had left the sides open, your deck would not of rotted like it did.

I personally believe that tape over the joists accomplishes nothing, and eventually it will be where the mold starts to grow. Painting Tar on the tops of the joists might do something, but if the deck has proper airflow, then the tops of the joists are not going to remain wet, and you are not going to have any issues. It's a solution that doesn't really work, to deal with a mistake in construction that should of never happened.

 

[2manyrocks]

It would be helpful to see a picture of the patio area like post #41 after everything that's been cleared off.

Stairs would be less intrusive if the door could be relocated to the area where there's a window next to the chimney chase.

If you could scale down the size of patio furniture, that might help, too.

 

[Runner]

Before committing to concrete, I would seriously think about building out of wood again. From everything I've seen in your pictures, you know how to build a quality deck. You just made one mistake, and that was the airflow issue. If you had left the sides open, your deck would not of rotted like it did.

I personally believe that tape over the joists accomplishes nothing, and eventually it will be where the mold starts to grow. Painting Tar on the tops of the joists might do something, but if the deck has proper airflow, then the tops of the joists are not going to remain wet, and you are not going to have any issues. It's a solution that doesn't really work, to deal with a mistake in construction that should of never happened.

I appreciate the kind words. I did detail that deck within an inch of its life. Spent about $1million on Simpson fasteners (even used the approved screws, etc.), did the flashing and attachment of the ledger just like you read about and everything. Really tried to do it right.

However, at this point, I just don't have the energy or drive to do it all over again. Plus, the foundation is gone. Right now, I just want "easy" and to not have to think about it anymore.

Maybe someday in the future I'll get my second wind and try it again. At least I'll know what not to do.

 

[Runner]

It would be helpful to see a picture of the patio area like post #41 after everything that's been cleared off.

Stairs would be less intrusive if the door could be relocated to the area where there's a window next to the chimney chase.

If you could scale down the size of patio furniture, that might help, too.

Very true, having the door/stair near one side of the slab instead of the middle would have been much better. I would just add that to the list of about 6 million other things I would change about this house if I could....

I still maintain that the root of all evil is trying to jam houses (or any other building) onto a lot where they just don't belong. This kind of crap happens all the time with "raised ranch houses" sitting on sloped lots.

 

[2manyrocks]

I went to Lowes trying to match my vinyl siding which of course wasn't a stock item, but the guy in the store immediately knew what it was and ordered a box of it for me because it was used so much in my area.

Depending on what's on the inside, moving a door to a window space and vice versa isn't as much work as building a deck. But you'd need to find siding to match.

 

[Runner]

I went to Lowes trying to match my vinyl siding which of course wasn't a stock item, but the guy in the store immediately knew what it was and ordered a box of it for me because it was used so much in my area.

Depending on what's on the inside, moving a door to a window space and vice versa isn't as much work as building a deck. But you'd need to find siding to match.

2, are you saying Lowe's was able to order siding to match yours, even though it was not a brand they carry? Or, just that they were able to match the color with a brand that they do carry?

Looking at their web site, it looks like they carry 5 brands, plus something called "unbranded". But they don't list "Alside" which is my brand. Perhaps I'm making too big a deal out of this, maybe siding is siding... I know even less about siding than I do about treated wood.

I do know this, if I can't get pretty close to an exact match, it's going to bug me. A lot.

 

[bdhsfz6]

My treated wood deck rotted off 10 years after I built it. I replaced it with extruded aluminum planking:

LockDry® Aluminum Waterproof Decking from Nexan

LockDry® aluminum waterproof decking is a maintenance free deck product that creates a waterproof area under the deck. LockDry® is ideally used for roof decks, 2nd story decks and replacements to underdeck ceilings and composite decking.

www.nexaninc.com

It's waterproof and creates a dry space underneath.

After 18 years, it looks almost the same as it did when installed.

At 3x the cost of treated wood, it's pricey but it will never have to be resurfaced, repainted or replaced.

 

[ruffdog]

My deck is 5 feet off the ground (wash stones) and is totally open. No rotting noticed yet and is 29 years old.

 

[2manyrocks]

2, are you saying Lowe's was able to order siding to match yours, even though it was not a brand they carry? Or, just that they were able to match the color with a brand that they do carry?

Looking at their web site, it looks like they carry 5 brands, plus something called "unbranded". But they don't list "Alside" which is my brand. Perhaps I'm making too big a deal out of this, maybe siding is siding... I know even less about siding than I do about treated wood.

I do know this, if I can't get pretty close to an exact match, it's going to bug me. A lot.

It's been 20 years and I'm not sure that I even asked if it was a brand they carried. The guy looked at a piece I brought into the store, immediately knew what it was and said he could order it for me.

You won't know for sure until you ask. At least you know the brand and item you're looking for. The builder had to get that siding from somewhere.

Depending on the degree of fading due to sun exposure, the new may look some different than the old.

 

[4570Man]

Pressure treated lumber is garbage now and it’s never going to last 30 years like it used to but the skirt definitely traps moisture and accelerates rot.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Good thought. My intention is to cut and remove the ledger everywhere but where needed for the new stairway, then fix the siding. I have some spare pieces of siding, but haven't looked at the stash yet to see if there is enough to do the job.

Just in case, I have been investigating and found that the original siding was made by a company called Alside, which is apparently still in buisness and still sells the same pattern and color. Problem is, I can't find a distributor. The siding is identified in their literature as "Odyssey Plus Premium Vinyl Siding - Double 5" Dutch Lap in Platinum Gray".

I only need to install 4 pieces to do the fix, but have to be able to buy it first. Would hate to have to hire a siding company just to do this.

Z Flashing is usually used to protect the ledger board