Well Depth?

[Mike H]

Hi Jim - I think I'm about 30 miles from you and I only had to go 42' when we put in a new well 3 years ago. Boy was that fun. Middle of Feb. in MI and both the pump and motor go at once. Since we only had a 2" well at the time, deciding to put in a new one was easy. Dealing w/o water for 10 days while everything got handled was not pleasant! Since our horses are my wife's, she got to deal w/ hauling about 40 gal. a day for them!

Anyway - no problem anymore. Somebody asked why hardwater at the tap? For people on a low sodium diet, the salt from the softeners is problematic. Myself, as I've been replumbing my old farmhouse I've run hardwater to external spigots (for the obvious reason!) and to a couple of internal faucets simply because I don't like the taste. 90% of the internal plumbing is softened and it makes a big difference.

Being on a well, my kids also are supposed to take flouride pills - something I never heard of growing up in suburbia. (Here's a bit of odd knowledge - flouridation of municipal water began in Grand Rapids, MI!).

Actually, I think the biggest well water problem we have around here is nitrate contamination. I bet that doesn't happen so easily with 500' aquifiers!

 

[Alan L.]

I'm right now in the process of deciding how to get water to my property so I can build. Rural municipal water is 1500' away, with tap fees, buy in fees, etc. it looks like it will cost $12,000 to get hooked up. Wow. I have called one water driller and he said in my area I would probably want a 1000' well for $20,000 because there was a 50-50 chance of iron in the "shallow" acquifer about 250'. He said the filter replacements were epensive, but he could do the more shallow well for about $4,000. He also said he is booked for a YEAR.

I was at a high school baseball game Thursay night and a commercial airline pilot who lives about 5 or 6 miles from my land recommended a driller who is familiar with the area. He has drilled 4 250' wells and doesn't have iron in any of them because he says the guy goes to a particular place in the acquifer somehow. So far this guy hasn't returned my phone call.

Sounds like a good business to be in.

If you folks with wells could hook on to a municipal water system for some pretty stiff $$, and had not already drilled a well, knowing what you know now about the problems with wells, maintenance of the equipment, electricity, etc. which would you go far?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Alan, I have sister in Kaufman, TX who was forced to get on rural water system and ended up drilling a well to do all her outdoor watering, using the municipal water for indoor use only because of the monthly expense. Not knowing your situation or what the longterm cost of using the municipal water is I wouldn't even try to give you advise but cost of water is something else you might consider. I had my well drilled 3 years ago. It is 190 feet and with either a 1 or 1.5 hp submersible pump and pressure tank installed for $1800. I had the larger pump put in so it would support a sprinkler system for about 2 acres. I think .5 hp or .75 hp is standard but that may depend on the depth of the well. I am sure no expert.

 

[TomG]

Thanks Jim & Wen. Regarding heat exchangers: Some of the double walled types probably are OK under some codes for use with gray water. There is a type which installs in a vertical section of shower drain, but it works only when hot water is simultaneously used and drained. Anything else, including solar supplements requires storage and starts becoming a big deal.

I'm just thinking it through, but my impression probably agrees Wen. I'm not sure the amount of electricity saved is worth the cost of setting up some elabourate system. Figuring out the codes and paybacks probably will become a hobby for me.

 

[Wingnut]

JimM ... I hate to question your comment about water softeners taking out iron, since you're a teacher and all ... but having had severe iron problems back in Alberta ... I would have to dispute your contention.
The "iron" is actually iron bacteria ... so ion exchange won't do a thing. In order to get clean water at my place (it was a 50 foot "dug" well with 25 feet of water .. and became severey "iron enriched" after 10 years ... I had to put on a chlorinator - to kill all the organics like the iron bacteria (and all other organics as a beneficial side effect) and then filter out all the organics with an activated carbon filter.
The water was almost too soft, once the organics were out of it.
All the reading I did when trying to decide what I wanted to do to get clean water (other than spending $10k for a bored well with no guarantee of better water) stated that ion exchange would work for minerals ... for organics you needed to kill and filter.

Now, in answer to your question ... in Alberta I had a 26" x 50 foot well with several hundred gallon per minute flow; here in mid-Michigan I have a 410 foot deep bored well with nice clean cold water ... haven't needed to filter or soften.
pete_d_in_MI

too bad that common sense ain't

 

[_RaT_]

Alan, I can sympathize with your situation. I am fortunate enough to live in an area where my well is 90' deep, is almost artesian, with a minimum of 20 GPM, that is the capacity of the pump. I irrigate most of my acerage with ditch water. I havent seen it mentioned here but I can purchase as much water as I want from the irrigation company for irrigation purposes supplied by a pressurized irrigation canal. Cost is about $300 a year, year round use. That is for 2 miners inches which is about 22 GPM, but since its a party line, typical supply is closer to 100 GPM. I run about 30 rainbirds at a time. I know I am fortunate to have this and only hope the prices stay so reasonable. The water from the well needs nothing more then a sediment filter. No iron, normal mineral content, I would not connect to the domestic water myself. The well in my case only supplies domestic use water, no irrigation, so use is minimal. Best of luck to you and your choices ahead. Rat

 

[MarkV]

JimbinMi, Been out of town for the weekend so I am a bit slow getting back to you. What the well drillers here do,is pressurize the well when they hit water to see how many gallons per minute it will flow and still maintain its static level. I am sure someone else could give a better explanation than I but this is how it was explained to me. In my case with 3 1/2 a minute, I can pump that much water per minute with out lowering the level of water in the well hole. My well has a minimum flow so we drilled an extra 100' feet to create a "reservoir". This enables me to draw more than the 3 1/2 gpm without running out of water. But, my "reservoir" will only replenish it self at 3 1/2 gpm.

 

[W5FL]

Having been on nothing but wells for the past 21 years, I have not forgotten the cost of city water. Overall, wells provide good water that costs no more than city water and may cost a lot less. A water softener is not expensive and removes the problems of hard water and high iron or mineral content (not extraordinary amounts). A reverse osmosis unit removes any traces of sodium or lead or other minerals and provides EXCELLENT drinking water and ice cubes. Almost the entire state of California exists on water softners and RO units. They even come to your house and install them for free and service them for a monthly fee. Texas is not that used to these products, but Home Depot and Lowes make obtaining these products easily.

Well repair can be expensive. If you don't plan for those expenses they can wreck your budget.

No, I would not take city water under any circumstances if I can have well water! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif A developer just put in a municipal water line across the street. Their reason for doing this was only because they can't cut up the land into small enough parcels if people have to have a well and a septic system and they have to be spaced apart for Health reasons. This one has been tied up in the courts for about 3 years now, and may never be resolved. Cities want to control high density housing and keep it in the city limits and developers don't. Simple as that.

 

[W5FL]

Re: Iron In Well Water

Yes, Iron comes in two distinct different problems. Clear water iron is the most common and is removed with a water softner. Iron bacteria is formed from clear water iron and is a slimy mess - usually reddish to black in color. It acan be simply filtered. A flushable filter works fine and an IRON filter than uses Potassium Permanguate works too. However; many pretty bad cases can be removed by simply pouring 2 gallons of swimming pool strength chlorine down the well, letting it set, then pumping the well until the level of chlorine drops to normal drinking strength levels.

I fought this problem in San Diego (actually Jamul, CA) for several years. A well driller said he could stop the problem. I thought he was the most stupid guy I ever talked to, but let him try. He fixed the problem and saved me the bi-annual replacement of a couple of hundred feet of water pipe. He simply replaced all the iron pipe in a 650 ft well with very heavy duty pvc pipe. All my iron bacteria problems went away and an inline cartridge filter and a water softener took care of it from then on. Amazing that this fixed the problem apparantly caused by low ph water eating away the pipes in the well.

p.s. You absolutely must use a good quality cartridge filter ahead of a water softner used on water well systems or a few grains of sand will stop the softner valves from working properly! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[W5FL]

Another nice reservoir is a 2000 gallon pvc tank in the barn. This requires a second pump to re-pressurize the water but provides the 40 gallons a day for the horses and people until you can get a well fixed! Even at 2 gpm - which is a really low well rate, every hour pumps 120 gallons and you can fill up a 2000 gallon reservoir in about 16 hours. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[ejb]

>>Another nice reservoir is a 2000 gallon pvc tank in the barn.

Where would you get a 2000 gallon pvc tank...I have been wanting to getting something that big (or bigger) to store up some of the rain we get so that I can water my gardens without worrying about draining my well in the really hot/dry summer days.

Any idea what a large tank like that would cost?

 

[_RaT_]

Wen, the only problem I see to the PVC tanks is the heat they generate which is why I would generaly recommend putting in concrete lined tanks, in the ground. Cost is a drawback, but it is forever and the water stays much cooler. Your answer regarding municipal water was good except that I would think that a person would have to weigh the costs. Here in Northern California, it seems most beneficial to have domestic water since it is very cheap and costs to pump for irrigation will kill you compared to the cost of municipal. That cost is the big "if". If I lived in the SF bay area, water is expensive, and well water could be a better solution. Of course if I had any acerage at all in the Bay area, I'd sell it for millions and move some place with some reasonableness of affordability. You know alot about your wells, Rat

 

[Mike H]

The problem I had w/ my 40 gal/day when my well went out was that it was Feb. I don't heat the barn so I need to contend w/ freezing.

 

[W5FL]

Souther California requires a 3000 gallon reservoir at EVERY house for firefighting. I was exempted because I had an in ground swimming pool! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif They will come dip the water out of your pool if they need it, too. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I saw the 2000 gallon in the Tractor Supply Catalog. I believe it was 8 ft in diameter and about 6 ft high. They need to be listed for potable water, but most are. They use an epoxy paint on the inside of most metal tanks for potable water use anymore. Seem to remember a price of about $700 for the 2000 gallon tanks.

 

[W5FL]

Water was very expensive in Souther California - because it only rains in Northern California.

Water Bills over a Thousand dollars are possible for orchards and they will not let them drill their own wells if they are in a water district that furnishes them water.

Texas is getting more like California every day, except it rained ONCE this year, here! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[W5FL]

If I had to have a tank in an unheated barn, I would wrap it thoroughly with 6 inches of fiberglass, put poly sheeting on the outside of that, and then float me a heater in the water like they use on stock water feeders.

My barn is unheated also. It has a concrete floor, and is insulated with fiberglass. The lowest temperature I have ever seen inside the barn (with the doors and vent closed) is 45 degrees! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[JimBinMI]

Re: Iron In Well Water

Wen,

My water softener has been working just fine for over 12 years on my well without a cartridge filter!

Maybe my softener was made by New Holland, I'll have to go check! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[JimBinMI]

Wingnut,

Just because I'm a teacher doesn't mean that I teach every subject under the sun, I'm as open to criticism as anyone else on the board. I believe if we question what someone else says, or we know for a fact that they are wrong, then we should correct them for the good of the other members and the board. I believe it can be done in a civil manner as you have here. After all, we don't know when someone's 10 yr. old is going to get on here and type for them either! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Now, my bone for you! IF water softeners don't remove iron, why do stores as well as Culligan sell salt with Rust Buster in it? I KNOW that my softener removes iron from my water, when I occassionally run out of salt, the showers begin to look stained with iron if I don't get salt back in the system soon enough. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

So, why can I buy salt with Rust Buster in it?

Looking forward to your response so that all may learn, me included! /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[W5FL]

Re: Iron in Water

JimBinMI,

Read my previous post. There are two different kinds of iron. Clearwater (fully dissolved) iron and redwater or rust colored iron water. Only a filter media will removed non clearwater iron. Softeners are effective on clearwater iron. The salt with Rustbuster or any other name simply has an acid to clean the iron that is bound to the water softner resin so it will not lose it's effectiveness. The worst offender is iron bacteria (black slime) that must be killed with bleach in the well and then filtered out of the water.

When I was younger, if I had known that teachers didn't know everything, then I would never have listened to them at all. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[W5FL]

Re: Iron In Well Water

JimBinMI,

Using a water softner without a cartridge filter before it is just like driving your tractor without a ROPS. It will only matter when you need it! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif A water softner is not a high tech device. It sucks in the salt water through a small venturi that generates negative pressure from the water flow. A single drop of sand will clog it and then you have to take the whole thing apart to clean out the venturi.