Welding recommendations for this part ...

[Qapla]

Well, I was digging and all the sudden "POP" and the bucket dropped. The ram on the boom arm broke (Woods BH 70-X Sub-frame Backhoe
) According to Woods, the specs of this Hydraulic cylinder 2.5 x 1.25 x 15.50 Retracted length 26.25in.

I have included some pics. A couple are a bit hard to see clearly, but that was the best I could do with the positioning of the cylinder and my phone. If needed, I can try to take some clearer pics if that would help.


Questions:
Is this something we could weld or should we leave it to the professionals or replace the ram/cylinder?

If we weld it (we have a stick welder and a wire welder) what rod/wire should we use.

Suggested setting for the welder

Thanks

 

[FredH]

Slightly longer , but I did not search to much .

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7941-16-S&catname=hydraulic

Welding Shaft is very debatable . Requires beveling on both sides , thus welding from as close to the center of shaft on out . Otherwise you are just welding the outside of the shaft all the way around , with the center still broken .

Only my opinion .:thumbsup:

Fred H.

 

[Davestc29]

You can reweld it but you have to make a bevel and multiple passes to make it strong as for type if a ain't a good welder something with bare min 180 amp 220 volt is go to a machine shop and have them do it. If it were me I'd do it like welding pipe first with a 6010 and cap it with a 7018 of 7024

 

[hog987]

Just go to a machine shop and get a new rod made for the cylinder.

 

[mrmikey]

Extend it out so you don't overheat the wiper in the end of the barrell, bevel the rod to a wedge shape like a chisel not a point like a pencil and weld it up with 7018. Make sure you don't get any weld on the rod where it goes past the wiper, same for spatter.
To be sure wrap a damp rag around the rod, it'll protect it form stray arc strikes also.....Mike

 

[brain55]

The first thing I would do is price a new rod so you can make an informed cost analysis. I'm sure you have a cost in your mind (I'm sure this number varies for all of us) where it wouldn't make sense to try and fix it yourself. Along with availability and shipping cost and time depending on how critical having the machine up and running again is. You would definitely want that information before you went to machine shop to have one made, or taking it to a professional welder to have them repair it.

 

[MuleMn]

Replace rod or whole cylinder if need be. Since you are asking the question, if it is welded let a pro do it. . Specs are real critical.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

It is probably a standard cylinder. Take it to a hydraulic shop (not your dealer) and I'll bet they can match up a new push rod. If you are not mechanical minded they can disassemble and assemble it for you. Problem with welding w/o professional jigs is keeping it straight and true. A little off and you will destroy the cylinder seals quickly. Pretty hard to heat and straighten unless you get the rod out of the cylinder first. Price the rod replacement vs a new cylinder assembled. It may be cost effective to just buy the whole thing. They are easy to replace with standard shop tools.

Ron

 

[Groo]

If you try welding it and it breaks again, you will be in the same spot as you are now. I'd at least give it a shot.

I recently got a cylinder rebuilt for about $200, including a new rod welded to the old end, if that helps you.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Too much stress on the part for a weld. This is one of those time to buy new.

 

[cowski]

that is weldable. it is probably a cast steel fork, so i would use 1/8 7018 only.i would start at 130 amps then adjust.as long as the rod is not bent it should be good as it was before the break.be sure and run the rod all of the way out to weld it.

 

[hog987]

that is weldable. it is probably a cast steel fork, so i would use 1/8 7018 only.i would start at 130 amps then adjust.as long as the rod is not bent it should be good as it was before the break.be sure and run the rod all of the way out to weld it.

If you weld it together than the rod will never be straight. Plus to get a good weld you will have to grind to a point. If you a stick welder you will than have to grind every weld to get all the slag out or it will be a week weld. Just using a chipping hammer wont do. Best to price a new rod or a whole new cylinder. Also depending on where the stresses are on the rod when its running it might break again an inch or so from where it was welded due to the heating and cooling of the weld. to me thats why it looks like it broke in the first place.

 

[lostcause]

The first thing I would do is price a new rod so you can make an informed cost analysis.

that's the best advice here. at the same time, check to see what replacing the entire cylinder costs too, that way you know how much a botched repair could cost. i'm not saying "don't weld" because i'm the type who will try a repair if i think it is practical and possible. i'm just saying to make sure it is worth trying.

i can't see from the picture, but it looks like the rod pulled away at the previous weld, which was only around the outside? was it only welded around the outside, because it looks like you have a flat in the middle where it didn't break because it wasn't welded there? maybe it would be possible to bore through the end of the yoke (or whatever part is broken off that we aren't seeing) and then plug weld to the center of the rod. you can reinforce that by welding around the perimeter of the rod where the break is. if it was only welded around the outside then they deemed that to be adequate (though in your case it didn't hold up), so i wouldn't lose sleep about not fully grinding the rod to a point. if you just clean up the mess from the break you'll have a blunt point with a partial bevel all the way around which should put you back to where it started, or even a little better.

the things i'd make sure to do are: fully extend or dismantle the cylinder. cover as much of the rod/cylinder as possible to avoid any extra damage (i use lengths of exhaust pipe, old wool blankets, layers of duct tape, etc). then grind down the broken area to a fairly smooth surface on both pieces. these are fairly obvious steps that you probably already knew, but i figured i'd mention them.

edit: after staring at the picture again (it's kind of like one of those pictures where if you look at it enough an image appears) it looks like the end piece is a sleeve for a cross pin. that means no luck on plug welding through to the center, so those ideas won't work in this case.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Well I have to be honest, your photos suck. I cant tell what kind of weld was on it to start with. We dont know what material the rod is made from either so without getting too exotic and just using materials that you likely have on hand, try welding it with 7018. It likely wasnt welded with 100% penetration but with maybe partial bevel and fillet weld. What ever if you can duplicate what was originally welded it should hold for a while. Cant really tell but it doesnt look like a weld broke, looks like the rod fractured from stress or something like cold working that made it brittle although I dont know what would have induces that other than welding. It could have been hydrogen embrittlement from welding it with wet low hydrogen rods that started a crack and it just took a while to work its way thru. If you have enough rod, grind off all the old metal from the pin attachment connection while trying to see what kind of weld was on it and then duplicate it. I would think it isnt full pen and just grinding a slight bevel on the shaft so you can get about 3/8" fillet weld on it then a couple passes around the outside should hold it. You dont need the full strength of the rod, just what the hydraulics is capable of pulling since a lot of the rod size is also to avoid bending not just a straight pull.
If it dont hold, you can then always get a new rod made. Nothing lost but a bit of your time and a few welding rods.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I looked at the photos again and still cant tell much BUT did the cylinder rod break in the middle or say more than a couple inches from the pin connection or right next to the pin connection. IF it didnt break at the pin connection, then you need to just get a new rod because the welded part cant be going up past the cylinder seals.

 

[k0ua]

I looked at the photos again and still cant tell much BUT did the cylinder rod break in the middle or say more than a couple inches from the pin connection or right next to the pin connection. IF it didnt break at the pin connection, then you need to just get a new rod because the welded part cant be going up past the cylinder seals.

Gary I "think" that the break is about 3/8 of an inch outside of the section that retracts inside judging by the bright portion and dark portion of the rod. Maybe.. I have stared at the photos and they are kinda like looking at inkblots, after a while you start "seeing things".

James K0UA

 

[westbrooklawn]

I had a similar problem, and found a hydraulic shop to do the repair at a very reasonable price. See the following thread that covers my problem and fix:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/231920-woods-bh80x-broken-cylinder-end.html

 

[Qapla]

Well I have to be honest, your photos suck...

I plan on pulling the cylinder. I will try to take some better photos and post them. I am also going to see what a hydraulic shop I deal with will charge. I do know that a new cylinder is listed at around $250. That may not seem to be an exceptionally high price, but when you have been without work anything is expensive.

Will take some time to check the options.

 

[killdozerd11]

Find out what a new one is and check with a welding shop what the cost would be
:thumbsup:
Don't try to weld that your self because you don't know how and you don't have the proper equipment to weld it

 

[FredH]

Previous listing at Surplus center , they had "0" , zero in stock .
This listing they have 10 in stock . Right size rod size , 3000 psi , just .5" longer when closed . Doubt I would ever notice that boom cylinder was .5" longer while operating my backhoe and at a savings of almost $150 , There are other options .

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-8261-16&catname=hydraulic


Fred H.