Welding Pot Metal

/ Welding Pot Metal #21  
With all things being equal, brazed joints are stronger than soldered joints but weaker than welding.

There are actualy some new kinds of brazing rods, that can make joints with a tensile strength of up to 120 000 psi, a lot stronger then most welds.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #22  
you must have missed the 'with all things being equal' IE.. in most cases.

i hear silicon bronze makes a nice joint.

In any event.. a joint stronger than the parent metal is overkill.

soundguy
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #23  
Jewelry Making Supplies | Soldering / Solders - Beading Supplies, Metal Working Tools
Soldering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Soldering is a process in which two or more metal items are joined together by melting and flowing a filler metal into the joint, the filler metal having a lower melting point than the workpiece. Soldering differs from welding in that the workpieces are not melted. There are three forms of soldering, each requiring higher temperatures and each producing an increasingly stronger joint strength: soft soldering, which originally used a tin-lead alloy as the filler metal, silver soldering, which uses an alloy containing silver, and brazing which uses a brass alloy for the filler. The alloy of the filler metal for each type of soldering can be adjusted to modify the melting temperature of the filler. Soldering appears to be a hot glue process, but it differs from gluing significantly in that the filler metals alloy with the workpiece at the junction to form a gas- and liquid-tight bond.[1]

I'd hate to disagree.. especially if I was wrong. Guess what.

I hit every dictionary I could find. Didn't look very well'

ALL of them agreed that brazing was a process where metals are joined.

the filler metals can vary.. the most common brazing we see is probably silver brazing. Go buy some. though people associate 'braze' and brass or bronze.

the term brazing does not in and of itself denote a specific filler material.

soundguy

brazeing is a joining process whereby a non-ferrous filler metal and an alloy are heated to melting temperature (above 450ーC) and distributed between two or more close-fitting parts by capillary action. At its liquidus temperature, the molten filler metal interacts with a thin layer of the base metal, cooling to form an exceptionally strong, sealed joint due to grain structure interaction. The brazed joint becomes a sandwich of different layers, each metallurgically linked to each other. If silver alloy is used, brazing can be referred to as Silver Brazing. Colloquially, the inaccurate:laughing: terms "Silver Soldering" or "Hard Soldering" are used.

In the more common, more specific usage, brazing is the use of a bronze or brass filler rod coated with flux, together with an oxyacetylene torch, to join pieces of steel. The American Welding Society prefers to use the term "Braze Welding" for this process, as cappillary attraction is not involved.

A variety of alloys of metals, including Silver, Tin, Zinc, Copper and others are used as filler for both processes. There are specific brazing alloys and fluxes recommended, depending on which metals are to be joined.

In order to work properly, the base metals must be exceptionally clean and free of oxides. In most cases, flux is required to prevent oxides from forming. Some metals, such as Titanium cannot be brazed.

Brazing is similar to soldering but higher temperatures Temperaturehas nothing to do with it. are used and the filler metal has a significantly different composition and higher melting point than solder.

Brazing is different from welding, where even higher temperatures are used, the base material melts and the filler material (if used at all) has the same composition as the base material.

The "welding" of cast iron is usually a brazing operation, with a filler rod made chiefly of nickel being used although true welding with cast iron rods is also available.

With all things being equal, brazed joints are stronger than soldered joints but weaker than welding.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #24  
/ Welding Pot Metal #25  
cool.. you choose the sources from the soldering websites that differentiates soldering from brazing and supports your opinion.

I'll continue to post the dictionary definition of brazing from the very many sites that specifically states that there are many different filler alloys used with the concept of joining metal known as brazing.

I got at least 3 pages of them book marked.. all start out with the same basic first sentence.

shall we start posting links now..... or?

ps crash.. the post you 'marked up' came from one of the online dictionaries. not my words.

Maybee I should forward your 'edits' to their research staff since you ? presumably? have more info than they do?? or?

soundguy
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #26  
I forget the exact temps from my filler metal sales days but brazing happens at temps above approx. 780 degrees. Soldering, Including lower temp silvers, happens at less than 780 or so degrees. I always enjoyed demos and training on Soldering and Brazing. There are some real cool filler metals like Nickel / Silver that can be built up or brazed overhead with no drips. The pot metal fix is an easy one.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #27  
I agree.. fast freeze allows are nice to be able to use when you need to bridge gaps.

I thinkt he hardest i've done are the aluminum welding.. since it goes from dull finish to slump in a second if you aren't carefull.. :)
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #28  
pot metal is cast out of a lot of metals but all of the castings are extremely dirty from the sand and other impurities , the piece will have foriegn material within the pores of the metal from the day it was made and will not solder or braze or tig weld or anything else , what it will do is burn and bubble away , I have seen it alot.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #29  
it does solder.. BTDT.. none of it turned into vapor and drifted away leaving an empty welding table.... :(


soundguyt
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #30  
Is welding Pot Metal possible? Is it as strong as new when done? Where is this done at?
Thanks:)


Many good chrome shops that rechrome antique auto parts can reweld potmetal. Not sure how they do it. Very common for them to put back obsolete broken pot metal parts.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #31  
I have a potmetal ashtray on a pedistal with a broken decorative top piece on it. I use it in my shop as an elevated nut / bolt catcher.. I guess I'm going to have to go solder it up this weekend and post the before / after pics so the naysayers that say it is totally impossible to rejoin pot metal by any means can see that it surely can be done with proper prep, materials and patience... :(

soundguy
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #32  
have to agree with deereman75, pot metal is a waste product that can be made of any combination of materials, thus who knows what to use to rejoin the surfaces. there are alot of glue/weld type products out there, but my choice has always been J.B.
Weld. saw it used (and I included) have used it on cracked trans. cases without flaw.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #33  
Anyone that wants to solder up Pot metal should get some "TIX" solder or any other that is suitable for Pewter.

TIX will not work on Aluminum based pot metal. But there is a very low temp. aluminum solder. With it you can even solder up your leaking Beer Cans. :laughing::thumbsup:

"(I have a potmetal ashtray on a pedistal with a broken decorative top piece on it.)" Good chance it is made of Pewter.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #34  
I have a potmetal ashtray on a pedistal with a broken decorative top piece on it. I use it in my shop as an elevated nut / bolt catcher.. I guess I'm going to have to go solder it up this weekend and post the before / after pics so the naysayers that say it is totally impossible to rejoin pot metal by any means can see that it surely can be done with proper prep, materials and patience... :(

soundguy

Let me know if you need a sample of Welco 52 with Flux. Repairs Pot Metal and Cast Aluminum. I don't sell it but I used to and I have a stash for rainy pot metal type days. I would be glad to send you a couple sticks.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #35  
Anyone that wants to solder up Pot metal should get some "TIX" solder or any other that is suitable for Pewter.

TIX will not work on Aluminum based pot metal. But there is a very low temp. aluminum solder. With it you can even solder up your leaking Beer Cans. :laughing::thumbsup:

"(I have a potmetal ashtray on a pedistal with a broken decorative top piece on it.)" Good chance it is made of Pewter.

allumalloy I believe it is called.

soundguy
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #36  
Let me know if you need a sample of Welco 52 with Flux. Repairs Pot Metal and Cast Aluminum. I don't sell it but I used to and I have a stash for rainy pot metal type days. I would be glad to send you a couple sticks.

never heard of it/.. will have to research it.

soundguy
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #37  
I remember the aluma weld being sold by hucksters at car shows, tool sales and such. They would weld (solder?) up all sorts of aluminun and pot metal. I even remember some TV adds for it.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #38  
Yes,,,The gypsies at shows would sell it for $20.00 for 6 sticks. They bought it from Welco for $3.00 #. Does repair pot metal but you can not say it "Welds". I used to watch the show guys with the head sets selling this stuff at shows and I would just laugh at what the suckers would pay for it. Other companies have the same thing with a dozen names but is all just a Zinc based material. The flux is the key to being able to do a great job but it is not required. There are other products to do pot metal too but they lack color match. Flux Coated Nickel Silver is the strongestbut it is gld color over grey pot metal.
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #39  
point is.. there are plenty of products and various techniques out there.. and it can be done.

not impossible as otherwise specified by some here.

soundguy
 
/ Welding Pot Metal #40  
please provide pictures of your succesfull efforts because I have spent a lot of time trying and can not show any examples, I am one of those here.
 

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