Welding Pot Metal

[pate]

Is welding Pot Metal possible? Is it as strong as new when done? Where is this done at?
Thanks

 

[deereman75]

As far as I know, there is no way to weld pot metal, you might be able to solder it, but even that is doubtful. The only way I would recomend is something like JB weld, but only if it is a non critical part. What is the object in question, it might be better to replace it.

 

[schmism]

As far as I know, there is no way to weld pot metal, you might be able to solder it, but even that is doubtful. The only way I would recomend is something like JB weld, but only if it is a non critical part. What is the object in question, it might be better to replace it.

braze it?

 

[Soundguy]

pot metal is any number of common low melting point metals in an allow... zinc, aluminum.. etc.. etc. takes realatively non sophisticated casting technology and is easier to work with..e tc.. makes cheap and easy to manufacture light weight castings..

since the metalurgy is uncertain.. at best.. I'd braze it. that will be a little stronger than solder.

save the jb weld for something it's designed for.

properly cleaned and prepped metal should braze fine and be decently strong, again.. depending on specific application.

more info from the OP would be helpfull in determining a repair mode..

soundguy

 

[deereman75]

Pot metal has a much lower melting point then brass, so I dont think brazing would work. I suggested JB weld because if you arnt very good at soldering, you could easly melt or deform the part quite a bit with the torch. (I have melted a chunk of aluminum with a soldering torch, not that hard to do with pot metal) If you used a solder like 60 40, with a low melting point, it wouldnt be very hard to do a good job soldering it, just not all that strong.

 

[Shield Arc]

Wonder if this would work?

Dura Fix Aluminum Welding Aluminum Brazing Aluminum Soldering & Repair Rod

 

[deereman75]

Wonder if this would work?

Dura Fix Aluminum Welding Aluminum Brazing Aluminum Soldering & Repair Rod

I looked at their site, from that, it sounds like it would work. Depending on the part, it might not be worth it due to the minimum order, and cost.

 

[Soundguy]

Pot metal has a much lower melting point then brass, so I dont think brazing would work. I suggested JB weld because if you arnt very good at soldering, you could easly melt or deform the part quite a bit with the torch. (I have melted a chunk of aluminum with a soldering torch, not that hard to do with pot metal) If you used a solder like 60 40, with a low melting point, it wouldnt be very hard to do a good job soldering it, just not all that strong.

Shieldarc picked up on what I was infering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazing

in actuality.. brazing itself is not denote a specific filler metal. hard soldering is actually brazing with a silver alloy.. ie.. silver soldering..

'brazing' does not solely refer to melting brass or brass alloys. Brazing can refer to silver soldering and can also be used to describe the easilly available aluminum safe rods with are particularly usefull for repair pot metal.

again.. this info is easy to research on the net.

I believe alum-alloy is one of the more popular ones.

I have some at home I got from northern tools. not sure the brand name.. but they are ok for aluminum, zinc, brass, etc.. anything you can't weld, or cant take the heat of yellow metal brazing.

ps.. pot metal can contain iron, cadmium, lead, copper, tin, magnesium.. etc


soundguy

 

[deereman75]

I know that is the actual meaning of brazing, but I just normaly think of brazing as in brass brazing, so that was a mistake on my part.

 

[Soundguy]

I looked at their site, from that, it sounds like it would work. Depending on the part, it might not be worth it due to the minimum order, and cost.

as I mentioned.. northern tool carries small packs of the aluminum allow rod.

harbor freight does too:

Aluminum Welding Rods - Pack of 8

soundguy

 

[2458n]

Our local welding supply place sells a product called Lab Metal. It might work well for your project. Uses no heat or two part mixing. It is capable of being drilled and tapped. Around 23 dollars for half pint.

 

[yomax4]

Harris Welco has Al-Solder 500. Solders any metal to any metal. Or I would choose Welco 52 with welco 52 flux. It will work good and be fairly strong. 52 is zinc based and designed for general pot metal type repairs.

 

[deereman75]

Wow I had actually forgot about all the solders there are for this kind of aplication. If it is a non critical repair, you could probably get away with normal 60 40 solder.

 

[Soundguy]

braze it?

yep.. that's exactly what I would do.

glue and epoxy just aren't that good of a repair (yet) for most issues, especially if you can run some soft metal around it.

soundguy

 

[Powerhorse]

I use a 2 part epoxy called Metalset A4 for parts like this, it is an aluminum filled industrial machineable epoxy. It has worked very well for me. It's made by smooth on.

Www.smooth-on.com

 

[eastexan]

My experience with the stuff wasn't good. :mur:

One time at work, a guy that worked in the office asked me if I could repair his big heavy "brass" belt buckle. It was a very nice buckle with a locomotive inlay on the front, but had the hinge broke off that holds the belt. I thought it would be an easy braze job and said, sure.

I turned down the acet torch to just a small easy flame.
But then when I just barely put the torch to it, the buckle just sagged with a small stream of silver looking metal running down onto the bed of my truck.
Boy was I shocked.

The "brass look" was just a paper thin skin of brass or brass looking material over pot metal (or pewter?).

So if yours is this same metal, I would be leery of using any kind of torch.
You might get by with that rod Shield Arc mentioned and a propane torch, but you would probably be better off with some kind of strong epoxy like those mentioned.

 

[deereman75]

It was probably pewter, that stuff is mostly tin, and melts at like 600 deg.

 

[crash325]

Shieldarc picked up on what I was infering.

Brazing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in actuality.. brazing itself is not denote a specific filler metal. hard soldering is actually brazing with a silver alloy.. ie.. silver soldering..

'brazing' does not solely refer to melting brass or brass alloys. Brazing can refer to silver soldering and can also be used to describe the easilly available aluminum safe rods with are particularly usefull for repair pot metal.

Sort of hate to disagree with you. But "Brazing" by its very name denotes Brass. The term silver brazing has been tried many times over the years and has never stuck. You can buy silver, gold or platinum solder, but you can not buy silver, gold or platinum, brazing material. All are sold as Solder even though platinum solders at White Hot heat. If memory is correct around 3,200 degrees.

 

[TRR]

Be careful with welding pot metal, Zinc (and some other metals) fumes can be hazardus.

Pot metal defination:
Pot metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Metal fume fever (affect of zinc fumes):
Metal fume fever - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Soundguy]

Sort of hate to disagree with you. But "Brazing" by its very name denotes Brass..

I'd hate to disagree.. especially if I was wrong.

I hit every dictionary I could find.

ALL of them agreed that brazing was a process where metals are joined.

the filler metals can vary.. the most common brazing we see is probably silver brazing.. though people associate 'braze' and brass or bronze.

the term brazing does not in and of itself denote a specific filler material.

soundguy

brazeing is a joining process whereby a non-ferrous filler metal and an alloy are heated to melting temperature (above 450ｰC) and distributed between two or more close-fitting parts by capillary action. At its liquidus temperature, the molten filler metal interacts with a thin layer of the base metal, cooling to form an exceptionally strong, sealed joint due to grain structure interaction. The brazed joint becomes a sandwich of different layers, each metallurgically linked to each other. If silver alloy is used, brazing can be referred to as Silver Brazing. Colloquially, the inaccurate terms "Silver Soldering" or "Hard Soldering" are used.

In the more common, more specific usage, brazing is the use of a bronze or brass filler rod coated with flux, together with an oxyacetylene torch, to join pieces of steel. The American Welding Society prefers to use the term "Braze Welding" for this process, as cappillary attraction is not involved.

A variety of alloys of metals, including Silver, Tin, Zinc, Copper and others are used as filler for both processes. There are specific brazing alloys and fluxes recommended, depending on which metals are to be joined.

In order to work properly, the base metals must be exceptionally clean and free of oxides. In most cases, flux is required to prevent oxides from forming. Some metals, such as Titanium cannot be brazed.

Brazing is similar to soldering but higher temperatures are used and the filler metal has a significantly different composition and higher melting point than solder.

Brazing is different from welding, where even higher temperatures are used, the base material melts and the filler material (if used at all) has the same composition as the base material.

The "welding" of cast iron is usually a brazing operation, with a filler rod made chiefly of nickel being used although true welding with cast iron rods is also available.

With all things being equal, brazed joints are stronger than soldered joints but weaker than welding.