Welding on nuts without damaging them

[Grumpy Old Man]

hey I thought you were joking but you know how they are around here and a post like that on an open forum with your name on it could be a bad thing .

 

[Scooby074]

I will not have him grow up in a metaphorical padded room out of the fear of some nosy busybody from DFCS trying to make a name for themselves.

Here, here!!! :thumbsup:

Im raising my kids the way I was raised... No padded bubble rooms here. And the kids have the bruises to prove it! Its a sad day when we cant let our kids play outside without fear that someone may question the injuries that occur from merely being an active child.

And we wonder why kids are fat and fidgety in class.. It's because they never have the chance to burn off that energy outside.

You want to see how far the bubblewraping of children has gone? How about cutting down all the Oak trees outside a school because somebody might be allergic.

 

[joshuabardwell]

You want to see how far the bubblewraping of children has gone? How about cutting down all the Oak trees outside a school because somebody might be allergic.

I heard about that one. The irony is that people with nut allergies are not typically allergic to acorns!

 

[joshuabardwell]

hey I thought you were joking but you know how they are around here and a post like that on an open forum with your name on it could be a bad thing .

No hard feelings, but seriously, like I said, "If you know of a way to teach a child not to touch an electric fence, without them getting shocked, do let me know." It's not like I pushed him into the fence on purpose or anything. Once he got to an age where I was sure that he could associate the shock with the fence and respond to it appropriately (by moving away), I only warned him about it, let's say, three times in a row, before I let him touch it. Then I comforted him while he cried. That happened, perhaps three times total, and ever since then, he has not touched the fence once. I call that a win. It broke my heart to hear him sobbing like that, but I'm not going to chase him around saying, "That's the electric fence, Dylan! Move away from the fence, Dylan!" I think that my job is to protect him from some parts of life until he's ready, but also to let him experience parts of life for himself when he's ready.

Oh, and as a bonus, he wants to stick things into electric outlets now too. When he got shocked by the fence, we said, "zap zap!" so he could have a verbal cue that he associated with the shock, so we could clearly warn him in the future that he was near an electric fence. So, now, when he starts eyeballing an electrical outlet and we want to communicate that it will shock him, we say "zap zap!" and point to it, and he understands what we mean. So he got a small shock from the fence and that taught him the concept of "electric shock" that he can apply to other, more dangerous things.

I guess my point is that, until he gets the actual experience of the shock, it's all conceptual. It's all us (his parents) pushing him around and hollering at him, and on some level, he trusts that we know what we're talking about and listens, but he's also a toddler, so lots of the time he ignores us and charges ahead. At that point, I think there comes a time when it's appropriate to say, "Okay. Go for it. See if you think I was right." And when I turn out to be right, maybe he listens a little better next time, or maybe at the very least, he doesn't repeat that specific thing. If I don't let him experience the negative outcomes of some things, then I have to become the negative outcome instead. When he gets too close to the fence, I have to punish him so that he doesn't get shocked. But why? The fence isn't going to really hurt him. I said my piece. He wants to touch it, okay. Now he touched it. Does he want to touch it again? I'm there to give him a warning (and because he's only 17 months old, several warnings, including physical redirection) but if he ignores the warning, then I'm content to let him and the fence work it out for themselves. Unless and until there is the potential for actual harm, of course. I don't let him stick things into electrical outlets, for example, because that can be a much worse shock. I point to knives and say, "That's sharp! Don't touch!" but at the same time, I physically prevent him from touching them. With the fence, I was right there, arm's length away, so that if he didn't know to let go after the first jolt, I could snatch him away. And I tell you all that so you don't get the idea that I am totally abdicating my parental responsibility to provide basic care for him.

I hope that nobody reads this and decides to report me to DFCS. I have heard some horror stories about them. But I also don't want to feel like I have to hide in a hole because I'm not coddling my child. I have seen parents run all over a playground after their kid: "Be careful! Don't fall! Watch out!" and even if I had the energy for that, I don't think it's a good way to raise a child into a confident, independent, competent person. The exact kind of person who frequents TBN, come to think of it.

 

[k0ua]

No hard feelings, but seriously, like I said, "If you know of a way to teach a child not to touch an electric fence, without them getting shocked, do let me know." It's not like I pushed him into the fence on purpose or anything. Once he got to an age where I was sure that he could associate the shock with the fence and respond to it appropriately (by moving away), I only warned him about it, let's say, three times in a row, before I let him touch it. Then I comforted him while he cried. That happened, perhaps three times total, and ever since then, he has not touched the fence once. I call that a win. It broke my heart to hear him sobbing like that, but I'm not going to chase him around saying, "That's the electric fence, Dylan! Move away from the fence, Dylan!" I think that my job is to protect him from some parts of life until he's ready, but also to let him experience parts of life for himself when he's ready.

Oh, and as a bonus, he wants to stick things into electric outlets now too. When he got shocked by the fence, we said, "zap zap!" so he could have a verbal cue that he associated with the shock, so we could clearly warn him in the future that he was near an electric fence. So, now, when he starts eyeballing an electrical outlet and we want to communicate that it will shock him, we say "zap zap!" and point to it, and he understands what we mean. So he got a small shock from the fence and that taught him the concept of "electric shock" that he can apply to other, more dangerous things.

I guess my point is that, until he gets the actual experience of the shock, it's all conceptual. It's all us (his parents) pushing him around and hollering at him, and on some level, he trusts that we know what we're talking about and listens, but he's also a toddler, so lots of the time he ignores us and charges ahead. At that point, I think there comes a time when it's appropriate to say, "Okay. Go for it. See if you think I was right." And when I turn out to be right, maybe he listens a little better next time, or maybe at the very least, he doesn't repeat that specific thing. If I don't let him experience the negative outcomes of some things, then I have to become the negative outcome instead. When he gets too close to the fence, I have to punish him so that he doesn't get shocked. But why? The fence isn't going to really hurt him. I said my piece. He wants to touch it, okay. Now he touched it. Does he want to touch it again? I'm there to give him a warning (and because he's only 17 months old, several warnings, including physical redirection) but if he ignores the warning, then I'm content to let him and the fence work it out for themselves. Unless and until there is the potential for actual harm, of course. I don't let him stick things into electrical outlets, for example, because that can be a much worse shock. I point to knives and say, "That's sharp! Don't touch!" but at the same time, I physically prevent him from touching them. With the fence, I was right there, arm's length away, so that if he didn't know to let go after the first jolt, I could snatch him away. And I tell you all that so you don't get the idea that I am totally abdicating my parental responsibility to provide basic care for him.

I hope that nobody reads this and decides to report me to DFCS. I have heard some horror stories about them. But I also don't want to feel like I have to hide in a hole because I'm not coddling my child. I have seen parents run all over a playground after their kid: "Be careful! Don't fall! Watch out!" and even if I had the energy for that, I don't think it's a good way to raise a child into a confident, independent, competent person. The exact kind of person who frequents TBN, come to think of it.

If it means anything, I am behind you 100%. You are protecting your child from real harm but letting him experience life.

James K0UA

 

[CNC Dan]

Josh, I'm with you on all you parenting choices.

 

[Scooby074]

I heard about that one. The irony is that people with nut allergies are not typically allergic to acorns!

Yup. Every time one of these "Nuts" starts spouting off, I get a mental image of Helen Lovejoy yelling "won't somebody think of the children"

 

[LD1]

I will not have him grow up in a metaphorical padded room out of the fear of some nosy busybody from DFCS trying to make a name for themselves.

:thumbsup:

If it means anything, I am behind you 100%. You are protecting your child from real harm but letting him experience life.

James K0UA

:thumbsup:

Josh, I'm with you on all you parenting choices.

:thumbsup:

Yup. Every time one of these "Nuts" starts spouting off, I get a mental image of Helen Lovejoy yelling "won't somebody think of the children"

:thumbsup:

 

[BukitCase]

I generally use most of the previous suggestions, plus I center the bolt in the hole and put another nut on the opposite side from the welded one BEFORE welding. That way the welded nut won't pull, and the bolt should stay perpendicular to the plate. This increases the "heat sink" mass - another plus.

I'd use a TIG too, but don't have one (yet) so use wire feed. Seems to help keep warpage down compared to stick... Steve

Oops, jumped the gun after reading the first page - sorry for staying on topic :=)

 

[mikehaugen]

I am in 100% agreement. Now you need to come over here and talk to my wife, because I can't get here to agree, but while I am watching the kids it's "learn away".

It's funny because she thinks I am too strict when it comes to discipline and privileges, but I think she is too "cautious" when it comes to life experience and "learning".

 

[BlacknTan]

I've always stick welded common, garden variety nuts... Every other flat. Run a tap through just because, whether it needs it or not. Never had a problem.

 

[muddstopper]

I hate welding nuts. I usually will tighten the nut snuggly in place, not torqued. Using stick. I will start my arc on the metal piece and walk it into the nut enought to get a good spot weld. I do this on two side of the nut. If the bolt seizes or gets tight to thread, I run a tap thru it.

On learning, my dad would let me stick the bobbypin in the outlet and then when I got shocked he would say "hurts dont it, bet you wont do that again" I tried to recharge a flashlight battery by taking the bulb out of a lamp and inserting the battery in its place. It did hurt and I aint tried that again either. Bumps and bruises are part of growing up. They are what teaches us what not to do and why not to do it. I think we all do our best to protect our kids, but you cant keep them in a padded room and expect them to learn anything about the real world.

 

[dstig1]

I generally use most of the previous suggestions, plus I center the bolt in the hole and put another nut on the opposite side from the welded one BEFORE welding. That way the welded nut won't pull, and the bolt should stay perpendicular to the plate. This increases the "heat sink" mass - another plus.

I really like that suggestion of the extra nut tightened down. Where you can do it, that makes a ton of sense. :thumbsup:

 

[k0ua]

I really like that suggestion of the extra nut tightened down. Where you can do it, that makes a ton of sense. :thumbsup:

Yep I need to try to remember that trick.. sounds like it would work.

James K0UA

 

[muddstopper]

Looking back on this thread made me just remember that I made a serious mistake yesterday. I am building a 3pt hitch towbar for a buddy. I used the reese hitch off a pickup truck. Cut the tube down and added pins to each end. I drilled a piece of 1/2in plate, cut to fit the tube, drilled the holes and bolted on the pins before welding into the tubes. Where I screwed up is I forgot to weld the nuts on the backside of the plate. Now its either cut the end caps off to weld the nuts, or just weld the pins in place. Welding the pins is the easy route and since the hitch will only see occassional use, and I really dont want to cut and grind out the caps, I guess I will just weld the pins. $##@% &*&#@$

 

[CNC Dan]

you could drill for the outside diameter of the nuts and weld the nuts to a second plate and weld the second plate to the first.

 

[joshuabardwell]

you could drill for the outside diameter of the nuts and weld the nuts to a second plate and weld the second plate to the first.

Not sure I see the advantage, Dan. Won't I be in exactly the same situation with the second plate?

 

[CNC Dan]

this was for mudstopper:

i was offering a way to salvage the work already done, not a way to do it from the start.

I guess i wasn't very clear.

Rather than cut off the welded on plates, and relpace them with plates that have nuts welded on the inside, drill a hole in the welded on plate to clear the nut that is welded onto a second plate. You will now have the second plate with the nut welded to it, over the first plate. This gives you the back mounted nut you wanted in the first place, without having to cut off the first plate that was welded on without the nut welded to it.

If it was me, I would just cut the plate off and re-weld it after adding the nut. But then I have a lot of tools.

 

[joshuabardwell]

this was for mudstopper:

That clears it up. Thanks.