Welding Bucket Hooks!

[jimmer2880]

Been using 7014's myself. But, I'll try some 7018ac's. Which is a better Out of Position rod, the 7014, or the 7018ac? Sounds like the 7018ac is a great all-around rod.

 

[xlr82v2]

I'd say 7018 is the better all-position rod.

 

[patrick_g]

Patrick_G - What is 'hard surfacing" you mentioned in the thread about your neighbor..

I would love a couple hooks on my bucket and since I dont weld I would have to rely on someone else for that.. Is there a science or art of where to place the hooks?

Brian

Brian, The cutting or "contact" surfaces on stone crushers, ripper teeth, dozer blades and such wear better/longer if made of hard material but making the whole blade/thingy out of the hard stuff is not practical or desirable so hardening techniques are used to harden areas that wear. Then when they wear away with use you can use "special" hard surfacing rods to build them back up.

I can't quote any numbers/designations for those rods as I never bought any. I have had various weldors give me a few but I never paid attention to any designation.

If you see some beads of weld run on the cutting edges of dozer blades and such that is probably some hard surfacing rod.

Sorry I can't give good detail as I'm not a pro weldor. If you Google on "hard surface welding rod" you will get lots of info about nitride hardening and tungsten and so forth.

This is something that a fair weldor can do on his cutting edges when they wear away.

I don't think my friend's injury was triggered by the kind of rod he was using and I didn't mean to imply that. I just put some context to the story. Bill Teague, is truly an artist with a welding machine. He made me a neat tool once, a nice pair of pliers with the adjustable head of a 8 inch crescent attached to a shortened handle of the pliers to make a multi-tool that was extremely handy on sailboats, our shared hobby as we both lived on sailboats.

Pat

 

[xlr82v2]

One thing...

I've been recommending the 7018 electrodes... but don't take it to mean that I think it's the best rod for everything... it isn't. I think it's one of the best all around rods out there though. For example, One disadvantage you will notice with 7018 is difficult restrikes. You can see what I mean about that in the video I posted. With a fresh rod, you'll see that the arc strikes very easily... but on a restrike, you have to crack through the "glass" that forms over the end of the electrode as it cools. On the other hand, 7014, 6013, and 6011 all have relatively easy restrikes. It's just the nature of the beast, characteristics of each type of electrode. There isn't one perfect electrode... that's why they make all the different types... each has it's own little "niche" that it's best for.

To learn lots more about most all welding topics, check out the message boards at Hobart Welders...

Hobart Weld Talk Message board

There's lots of professional weldors that hang out there, and overall it's a great bunch of guys. A great information resource for new weldors. I've been hanging out over there for several years, it's a great source of info.

 

[3RRL]

Brian,
Excellent advice on those two rod selections.
I use both rods and have steered away from 6013. I like the aggressive digging penetration you get from the 6011. And the 7018AC is pretty easy to weld with too. When I can, I use the 7018AC like on clean material and in my shop, but resort to the 6011 when welding outdoors at camp, OP welds, and in crummy conditions.

 

[patrick_g]

Not indicting anyone because they like pretty welds, I think we all do but I have seen lots of pretty welds that lacked proper penetration. Terrific cosmetics but poor strength.

Usually, given a choice, if you can't make it pretty at least make it strong with sufficient penetration. Of course, ideally you will learn to do both but in my opinion it is a mistake to concentrate first on looks. Try to learn to make a STRONG weld with adequate penetration AND THEN how to do that while leaving a pretty bead behind.

There are more ways to mess up than even I have discovered and I have found lots. There are lots of good welding books and the BIG Lincoln book is to be highly recommended. We often encourage beginners to practice practice practice and practice is good but if you are just practicing doing the same things wrong over and over till they seen normal to you then you are not helping yourself much if at all.

You need to practice/experiment and then get feedback to allow you to improve. I read some in a couple books (not having a coach available) and then practiced on scrap steel purchased for that purpose at a scrap yard. Fairly quickly I learned to get some fairly decent LOOKING welds and then I put them in a big vise and whacked the crap out of them with a sledge. My oh my how the mighty were fallen. I got some feedback on the strength of my welds.

I'm still learning to weld after over 10 years and will NEVER stop improving which is easy when you have so far to go and started out as humbly as I did.

Pat

 

[xlr82v2]

Patrick,

Excellent point. I knew someone would point that out, as I should have myself in my posts. To someone new, it would sound that I was saying that appearance is everything. Appearance is only secondary. Absoutely, Penetration and Fusion are what's important, especially to a beginner. Appearance comes later.

What you pointed out is especially pertinent to MIG. It is very easy to lay down a beautiful bead with a MIG, and it will have ZERO penetration except at the very beginning of the bead... not even scratch the surface on one or even both of the pieces of metal that you're welding together. You really have to watch it. You have to know what you're looking for to ensure that you're getting good penetration and thus fusion with MIG. SMAW (stick) is not as prone to have this happen as MIG. Pretty much with SMAW, if you pass the arc over, you're going to get at least some penetration.

A pretty bead does not necessarily a good weld make.

Someone with no welding experience is probably going to have a tough time teaching himself/herself how to weld, and make good sound welds. A finding a good teacher/tutor/mentor is the best path to success when it comes to learning how to weld. You do yourself (and whoever else you may weld something for) no favors by going the "I'll teach myself" route. Books can help, and videos showing what to look for are even better, but another live set of eyes watching and guiding and critiqueing you as you go is invaluable.

 

[patrick_g]

Yea verily Brian, I made some truly beautiful welds right away first thing when I got my little Lincoln Lunchbox (Weld Pak 100) The only problem was the part about the two pieces of metal falling apart under just a small stress. I do a lot better now. Most of my welds do not come apart, ever.

Pat

 

[RonR]

I take a different tack. I've used 6011 and other rods, but find for my welding around the place, 6013 gives me great welds that hold. Most of the stuff I build, I "overengineer" and "overbuild".

I don't have a problem with welds breaking using 6013 and my kids have messed with welding. If they were using 6011, they'd give up. But using 6013, they hang in there.

We keep 5/32 and 1/8 and 1/16 in 6013 and 1/8" 6011 here. Seems to handle anything that needs fixin'..........

ron

 

[3RRL]

Ron, Brian,
Well I must be doing something wrong then.
I find 6013 strikes easily and I run a very nice looking bead with it. However, my 6013 welds lack penetration. It's like it just "lays" on top of the parent material and I am not comfortable that the penetration is sufficient.

My 6011 and 7018AC welds are great, and they look pretty good too. I know I'm getting excellent penetration. You may have seen some of my many projects? I've TIG welded for 30 years on tool steels for plastic injection molds, so I am used to seeing "pooling" and super clean welds. With 6011 and 7018 rods, I can see the pooling and material flowing together but not with 6013.

What am I doing wrong with that 6013 rod? Too many amps or is it not enough amps?
I know I must be doing something wrong or maybe I'm just a ******? On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't complain since I get excellent results with 6011 and 7018?

 

[patrick_g]

Ron, A general purpose rod that you are good with will produce better results than the "IDEAL" rod which you are not used to using.

When I first tried to arc weld because I was engaged to do electronic engineering work on a portable battery operated arc welder project, I was terrible. A salesman from Parsons welding supply suggested some of the high powdered iron content in the flux general purpose contact rods and I could actually weld, a little bit. It was my first welding experience and anything that made it easier was welcome.

Luckily for me the prototype welding machine did not run standard DC it ran pulses of DC put out at the rate of 2000 or so per second and you varied the duty cycle of the pulses to control welding heat. You kept full open circuit voltage even at the lowest welding heat settings which made striking an arc super easy, so easy it spoiled me and I was in for a rude surprise when I bought a Lincoln AC/DC machine for my own and had to learn to weld like the rest of the world and suffer stuck rods starting an arc if I wasn't really careful.

Since then I have successfully stick welded with flux coated aluminum rods and really liked welding with stainless rods, ooh what a pretty bead.

I buy 6011 and 6013 in a few sizes by the 50 lb box and most other types in smaller boxes as most of my welding is with the 6000 series rods. I use 100 times or more 6000 series rods than 7000 series but then I'm not a welder, I'm just a guy who sometimes welds.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

What am I doing wrong with that 6013 rod? Too many amps or is it not enough amps?
I know I must be doing something wrong or maybe I'm just a ******?

Well from reading/enjoying your posts over time I know we can rule out the ****** possibility. I'm sort of a so-so weldor but a fair scientist. I tend to experiment. If I were having your results I think I would experiment with rod size. My results have tended to convince me that if you can't find the "right" amperage for a particular size rod used under some particular situation you might do well to change rod sizes,even if the rod size you change to defies "conventional wisdom."

Pat

 

[xlr82v2]

I take a different tack. I've used 6011 and other rods, but find for my welding around the place, 6013 gives me great welds that hold. Most of the stuff I build, I "overengineer" and "overbuild".

I don't have a problem with welds breaking using 6013 and my kids have messed with welding. If they were using 6011, they'd give up. But using 6013, they hang in there.

We keep 5/32 and 1/8 and 1/16 in 6013 and 1/8" 6011 here. Seems to handle anything that needs fixin'..........

ron

Ron,

There's nothing at all wrong with 6013. If it's working for you, then by all means continue to use it!!

When you say "If they were using 6011, they'd give up. But using 6013, they hang in there.", do you mean your kids, or the welds?

Either way, I can see what you mean. 6011 isn't the easiest rod to run.

 

[xlr82v2]

Ron, Brian,
Well I must be doing something wrong then.
I find 6013 strikes easily and I run a very nice looking bead with it. However, my 6013 welds lack penetration. It's like it just "lays" on top of the parent material and I am not comfortable that the penetration is sufficient.

My 6011 and 7018AC welds are great, and they look pretty good too. I know I'm getting excellent penetration. You may have seen some of my many projects? I've TIG welded for 30 years on tool steels for plastic injection molds, so I am used to seeing "pooling" and super clean welds. With 6011 and 7018 rods, I can see the pooling and material flowing together but not with 6013.

What am I doing wrong with that 6013 rod? Too many amps or is it not enough amps?
I know I must be doing something wrong or maybe I'm just a ******? On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't complain since I get excellent results with 6011 and 7018?

3RRL,

I'd say, without having seen your welds, that you need to turn up the amps a bit. My experience with 6013 is that it likes to run on the warm side best. It also, like 7018, is "classified" as a "low" penetration electrode.

I'd crank up the heat on it a bit and see how it goes. 6013 runs real nice when everything is right. I'm not sure why they call 6013 "the farmer rod", since it seems to be a bit more finicky about dirt and amps than does 7018 or even 7014. Like I said, the hotter you run it, the happier it seems, at least the box of 6013 that I've got does.

 

[Dascro]

I am throughly enjoying all the discussion on welding and the pointers that are coming through.

I have been welding with a MIG for several years now and currently use a MM180. But I am considering purchasing a stick welder (AC/DC). The Hobart at TSC is the least expensive with the Lincoln next (at the local weld shop) followed by the Miller. The performance specifications of all three appear to be very similar.

Is there any reason to be hesitant to buy the Hobart?

Thanks,
Dave

PS: I don't mean to hijack this thread. All the talk on welding must of got me excited!

 

[3RRL]

Brian and Pat,
I'll try using more heat when using the 6013. It (to me) seems opposite since the rod was laying down on lower settings already, and I figured (probably wrong) that turning up the heat would make the rod melt even faster. I'll also try using some different diameters. I only have about 5 or 10 lbs of it but wanted to use it up (why not?).

I'll stick to my 6011 and 7018 AC rod since I get excellent results with them, but wanted to use up the 6013 being frugal like I am.

Dascro,
The Hobart AC/DC is a great arc welder. I don't think you can go wrong with it.
I use a newer Lincoln 220 at camp off a generator (bought last year), but at home I have a 30 year old Forney I use. They are both AC though. I have a Miller 330A/PB at home too, which I use mainly for TIG welding. But I can also arc weld using either AC or DC with it.
Hmmmm, decisions, decisions.

 

[xlr82v2]

Dascro,

Hijack??? Heck, the first word in the title of this thread is "WELDING"

I highly recommend the Hobart Stickmate 235AC/160DC welder, it's the machine that I have. I grew up with a Lincoln AC225 buzzbox, but when I set up my own shop I went with the Hobart, reason being, I was committed to buying an AC/DC machine, and the Hobart is rated at 160 Amps DC, where the Lincoln is rated at 125 amps DC. That's a noticeable difference. So if you're shopping for an AC/DC machine, I'd highly recommend the Hobart. It is identical to the Miller Thunderbolt XL, the only difference is one is white, and one is Blue. They come off of the same assembly line, from the same factory. The fine print on the labels of the Hobart even says Miller Electric. It has been confirmed by Hobart reps on the "Hobart Weld Talk" message boards that they are identical machines except for the paint. The Hobart is quite a few $'s cheaper than the blue painted but otherwise identical Miller.

If you're just shopping for an AC only machine, you can't go wrong with either one, I'd get the one that was the lower priced unit.

Or, better yet, shop for one used... often you can find them for around $100-$150, or sometimes even less. Probably the only difference between one made in 1970 and one made yesterday is the amount of dust inside the case, and they're as reliable as a hammer. An older machine may need new leads installed, but that's an easy job to do, plus then you can customize them to the lengths that you want.

 

[Dascro]

Thanks for the informative replies to my question on "which stick welder". I was leaning towards the Hobart AC/DC and these responses just convinced me that is the one. For me, it is a must to have DC, so the AC/DC machine is a given.

xlr82v2, you sound like a pretty real-world knowledgeable person that is very willing to share what you know. I respect and appreciate that!!

Thanks,
Dave

 

[chh]

As stated Miller and Hobart are the same machine. The only difference between the Miller mig(the one I bought) and the Hobart was that the Hobart came with the shielded gas kit and the Miller didn't for the same price. I bought it to use with flux core wire so it wasn't something I was looking for specifically, but it would have been nice to have gotten the gas kit too.

 

[xlr82v2]

Dascro,

How do you like your MM180? I've got a Lincoln SP175+ for my MIG unit. So far I've had Zero problems with it and it welds pretty nice when the metal is good and clean. I've got both CO2 and C25 (75% Argon, 25% CO2) available for shielding gas. I use the CO2 mostly, as it's a lot cheaper. Which do you use?

And thanks for the compliments. I pretty much grew up on a dairy farm, and from the time I was big enough to climb on, I've been riding around on farm tractors. I've been driving them ever since I was tall enough to reach the pedals (probably even before that ), so I don't really even remember any time that I haven't been around big equipment. I don't remember not knowing how to drive anything with a clutch, or how to back up a trailer (1 axle) or even a wagon (2 axles, with the front steerable). I grew up with this stuff . So, now that I'm almost 38, I've got a little bit of experience with this tractor stuff. And, I love welding. Being able to cut and join metal with the ease of holding a pencil in your hand is just the coolest (or shoud I say "hottest"?) thing... almost as cool as flying. So, I figure that it's worth it to spend some time here to help out as best I can. And, I enjoy it a lot too. Don't take anything I say as gospel, it's just mostly what I've experienced growing up on the farm and doing whatever it is that I do here at my place.

Now I'm not on the farm anymore, and fly Learjets for a living (how's that for a change in direction, from milking cows to flying jets?) But, I'm still hopelessly addicted to tractors and farming. But the closest I've got right now is my 7 acres and whatever my sister in law needs done on her bunch of acres, my old 8N and now the Mahindra 3525 and my little "welding workshop"... they keep me "grounded" .

Enough about me, let's get back to welding!!