welders welders welders

[Sodo]

On the flip side the folks that know the least tend to try to build themselves up and beat their chests in self-importance while trying to belittle others. Why is that?

It's pretty normal in schoolyards and what's learned in the schoolyard can extend to life in general for many.

I've seen it where some folks are trying to protect their jobs too. Often when there's government funds tossed around. I think this is what you're referring to SA. They know someone else can do the job faster or better, they could NOT care less about the value of good work. They just want the job so they can milk it for the money. Follow the money.

But anyway back to this subject. If Duty-cycle is really worth worrying about I guess we'll hear of more "I'm having problems" than "I've never had a problem". But the bottom line is members wanna buy a welder and know what duty-cycle rating is sufficient. I'm still thinking that 20% duty-cycle rating is substantial, and not hearing of any (credible) problems. And of course it depends whose number it is. The only numbers I have experience with are Miller and Hobart's 20%.

James I'm not surprised you couldn't outweld a 60% machine, I tried to outweld a 20% machine (that was running in the 40-60% range) for 25 minutes and was whipped.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Wow the things I learn on TBN. Thanks I had not heard of the study. Did a bit of google search and came up with the sentence of the day for me.

"Unfortunately the problem with the Dunning-Kruger effect is that incompetent people have probably been getting this type of feedback for years and failed to take much notice.
Despite failing exams, messing up at work and irritating other people, the incompetent still don’t believe they’re incompetent."


I knew I liked reading your posts.

I find the study pretty interesting and I re-read it sometimes to make sure I'm not falling into the wrong group

Some people enjoy discussion, others want to tell you how it is, don't want discussion. If you're learning from the latter, better be sure what you're learning - is what you NEED.

Dave I like your sig line.

Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

That sig line is there to remind me to be very certain of what I think I know - and therefore be very careful in what I post as "my knowledge."

I also find it to be similar in theory to the above referenced study.

 

[Jim Timber]

The mounting flange is 1/2" for perspective.

I was running over 2 minutes straight on that.

But I'm not credible so my opinion doesn't matter.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

[snip]
I'm still thinking that 20% duty-cycle rating is substantial, and not hearing of any (credible) problems.

It's statement like these that lead me to think you want arguments sometimes? :confused3:
More than one person has stated that welding at the upper limit of a machine (in the 20%) range has caused them problems.

My position is always to find a machine that has 50%-60% duty cycle in the range I intend to weld in.
The upper limit is not really what I'm looking at since I've gone that route and overheated a few machines doing it (broke one of them).

So I feel it's better to buy large so it can run cooler where I'm going to run it.

May not be what everyone should do - but it has proven to work very well for me

Good example is my little ESAB 161 - since it goes up to 160 amps, it welds very well with 1/8" electrodes - and I don't need to use large electrodes with it since that's not what I bought it for.

My Airco 300 is a beast with aluminum and I can weld heavy for long periods in the 230 amp range (it's 60% duty cycle is at 300 amps - it's a monster).
It's HUGELY overkill for what I need and tops out at 470 amps - but since it was so dang cheap ($225) it was a no-brainer.

A 250+ amp machine would serve me just as well.

I would have no problems recommending 160 amp machines for people who don't need the extra power or duty cycle - it's the intended use that makes duty cycle an important consideration.

Back when I only welded once or twice a month, duty cycle was irrelevant to me.

 

[Jim Timber]

3/4" flange on 4" spline adapter:

Also took longer than 2 minutes.

Aluminum on TIG is brutal for the welder. The cooling fan on my Sync 250 doesn't come on often welding steel, but when running AC it's on a lot.

 

[Shield Arc]

My Airco 300 is a beast with aluminum and I can weld heavy for long periods in the 230 amp range (it's 60% duty cycle is at 300 amps - it's a monster).
It's HUGELY overkill for what I need and tops out at 470 amps - but since it was so dang cheap ($225) it was a no-brainer.

As you know I use to have the sister to your machine. I had mine hard wired to a 90-amp breaker. I built my bridge crane with it. Running 1/8" and 5/32" 7018. Man they have a sweet arc for 7018!:cool2:

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

As you know I use to have the sister to your machine. I had mine hard wired to a 90-amp breaker. I built my bridge crane with it. Running 1/8" and 5/32" 7018. Man they have a sweet arc for 7018!:cool2:

I love your bridge crane

The 7018 arc on them is definitely outstanding. Taught one of my friends to stick weld with it and he loved it too.
My Invertec v250-s is basically identical to it for 7018 in my opinion - and what a nice machine - 35lbs and has the same duty cycle as a dialarc 250.
It made a believer out of me for inverter machine welding!

 

[Jim Timber]

As you know I use to have the sister to your machine. I had mine hard wired to a 90-amp breaker. I built my bridge crane with it. Running 1/8" and 5/32" 7018. Man they have a sweet arc for 7018!:cool2:

Ever run an Invision on stick? When I was running some 6011 to make target stands for shooting steel, I didn't think my s6 wire would handle the crud on the wheels and I didn't feel like blasting them. So I plugged in the stinger to the Invision to see how it did on stick and was really pleased with how the arc ran with whatever settings they have for base on that program. When I chipped the slag off I couldn't believe I laid those beads. :laughing: I'm horrible at stick. Or was anyway. :laughing:

 

[Furu]

3/4" flange on 4" spline adapter:

Also took longer than 2 minutes.

Aluminum on TIG is brutal for the welder. The cooling fan on my Sync 250 doesn't come on often welding steel, but when running AC it's on a lot.

I bet you had a few amps going on that weld.

 

[Jim Timber]

I bet you had a few amps going on that weld.

I did it in three passes. I cooked it pretty hot on the root, then came back over it with the two visible passes to build it up while the base was still hot. I don't remember what my actual amperage was, but it was over 150. Usually I set the machine to max out at 200 when I'm doing tubing, so that the pedal responds in the way I like it. I rarely end up wide open, and when I have run TIG over 250A it's not a pleasant process on the operator. That's when you shrink wrap your gloves to your fingers. I tried TIGing 1/2" in a single pass and my hand was on fire in short order. Need a heat shield or something to run that much power.

 

[Shield Arc]

Ever run an Invision on stick?

No I haven't.

 

[lilranch2001]

Or if I have to jam it down into a dirty old crack. :shocked: (for me).

:shocked:

:devil:
:anyone:

 

[Sodo]

lilranch TIG is so much more civilized than stick-welding! Being faced with dirty ol' cracks all the time can bring out the 'wurst in a weldor that's for sure.

A friend of mine said he's had duty-cycle limitations when aluminum welding, never had it with steel. Jim those are pretty big projects you have there, substantially bigger than what turns up on this forum.

So, are you really saying that stopping after 2 minutes, then the 10 minute cooldown, (of a 20% machine) would cause undue hardship that is worth a few hundreds of $$? Or thousand $$$? I watch the projects that come across this forum, there's one in a hundred where it's even possible to hit a duty cycle. Once. A ten minute cooldown once every 5 years. Not a big deal (to me) but my standards may be lower.

You guys don't have to get your feathers ruffled. If the fellers buying new welders can afford bigger duty cycles, they will be fine. And those with 20% duty-cycles are doing fine too. So it's all good!

 

[Silvic]

YMMV - I'm not the typical hobbyist.

Maybe so but you certainly appear to have an ability to use your head and think. A skill that is lacking in many these days. I have a suspicion that you are not as atypical as you might think. A lot of folks view things in a very similar fashion. Great post by the way.

 

[Sodo]

YMMV - I'm not the typical hobbyist.

Yeah you're actually making stuff & posting it. That's really good for the forum!

 

[Jim Timber]

I made a decision when I upgraded from the little welders that I wanted the ability to weld 1/2" material in one pass. I figured that's as big as I was ever going to "need", then sought out machines capable of doing the job. When the deal on the invision came up, I decided it was worth dumping a couple more grand into because I was getting a power supply that'd do more, and the push-pull set up above an even swap on the power supply. I ended up selling my traditional "MIG" welder for very close to what I'd paid for it 3 years earlier. Welders have proven to be a stable commodity over the years as long as they're of known quality and you're not asking the moon for them. Money is made or lost when you buy it (just like with land). Pay too much on acquisition and you'll never recoup that, but if you buy it right you can sell it later and make out ok. Then if you make some stuff to sell with them while owning it, they pay their own rent.

So I do see where people are coming from when they look at it as a purely financial decision: "This sucker is going to bleed me dry". But I'm in it for the long haul and I don't think of the dollars parked in the machine as an expense so much as an investment in my capacity. If I ever decide it's time to hang it all up, I can probably cash out and do ok.