Welcome to my Nightmare!!!!

[AlanB]

Eddie, once again, I must say, "You are the Man"

I consider myself a fair mechanic, but you jump in both feet and make it happen. My hat is off to you, looks like you are doing a great job, and I would also fully agree, that once I was in that far, I would want to only do it once and be done with it. I have to believe that what you are saving in labor more then makes up for the additional cost in parts.

Anyway, as to freezing things, when a main rotor head gets stuck on a mast (similar to what you are dealing with) we will build a little dam down inside the mast (hollow tube on an apache) and then fill it with dry ice and it will contract enough to make the head bearings come loose.

I think you could do much the same thing with your new liners.

I did love the thought of returning the freezer to Lowes though /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But even more so I can see you walking in with the sleeve, and Test fitting all the freezers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[CurlyDave]

Might be time for a large ice chest and some dry ice.

That sounds about right for cooling the sleeves.

For heating engines, I have used a few (6-8) charcoal briquettes in an old pot on the ground under the block. The pot handle is convenient to move it around. Don't use an aluminum pot, it won't take the heat.

After the lighter fluid has burned off, this is a pretty clean source of heat.

I would remove the heat before working on the block, due to CO and CO2.

 

[EddieWalker]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
What seals the joint betweeen the block and the sleeve?

If there is any rust, scale or other corruption in the sealing area between the sleeve and the sealing surface in the block will there be trouble?

Does anyone with experience care to comment?

Dave

P.S. I want to see a picture of this thing working after all this... )</font>

Dave,

The attached picture should help with understanding how the sleever works. Basiclly it is the cylinder wall for the pistons. It is completley surrounded by water, thus it's a "wet" sleeve.

The bottom of the sleeve sits of four prongs. I drew a red circle around one of these.

The middle of the sleeve is a perfect fit into the round ring you see in the picture. This is a machined surface that is the bottom of the stroke for the piston.

You can see above this ring the water cavity inside the block. This is the aread around the combustion chamber.

The top of the sleever has two levels. One is flat with the deck of the block. Then the inside portion of the sleeve is taller and slides into the cylinder head.

These two heights combined with the head gasketp and 148 lbs of torque on the head bolts holds it all together.

From what I can tell, there is absolutely no rust or pitting of any kind inside the block or on the sleeves. I've always had lots of anti freeze and will put 6 gallons in when I refill it.

Eddie

PS. When I get it runny, I will post plenty of pictures of it in operation. I have way too many projects for it to accomlish!!!

 

[EddieWalker]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
What seals the joint betweeen the block and the sleeve?

If there is any rust, scale or other corruption in the sealing area between the sleeve and the sealing surface in the block will there be trouble?

Does anyone with experience care to comment?

Dave

P.S. I want to see a picture of this thing working after all this... )</font>

Dave,

The attached picture should help with understanding how the sleever works. Basiclly it is the cylinder wall for the pistons. It is completley surrounded by water, thus it's a "wet" sleeve.

The bottom of the sleeve sits of four prongs. I drew a red circle around one of these.

The middle of the sleeve is a perfect fit into the round ring you see in the picture. This is a machined surface that is the bottom of the stroke for the piston.

You can see above this ring the water cavity inside the block. This is the aread around the combustion chamber.

The top of the sleever has two levels. One is flat with the deck of the block. Then the inside portion of the sleeve is taller and slides into the cylinder head.

These two heights combined with the head gasketp and 148 lbs of torque on the head bolts holds it all together.

From what I can tell, there is absolutely no rust or pitting of any kind inside the block or on the sleeves. I've always had lots of anti freeze and will put 6 gallons in when I refill it.

Eddie

PS. When I get it runny, I will post plenty of pictures of it in operation. I have way too many projects for it to accomlish!!!

 

[Stimw]

I have heard guys talk about soaking liners in ice water to shrink. Also they talked about giving them plenty of time in the soak. They said if you get in a hurry and try to put them in too soon they will get part way in and have to be driven in with a block and sledge hammer. Also if you add plenty of salt to the ice and water you will get a colder mix.

 

[Stimw]

I have heard guys talk about soaking liners in ice water to shrink. Also they talked about giving them plenty of time in the soak. They said if you get in a hurry and try to put them in too soon they will get part way in and have to be driven in with a block and sledge hammer. Also if you add plenty of salt to the ice and water you will get a colder mix.

 

[Av8r3400]

I would be leery of immersing the sleeves in cold salt water. That sounds very corrosion to me. Possible future problems with the sleeve/block interface.

I like the dry ice idea, myself. Colder and non-corrosive. Just my opinion.

 

[Av8r3400]

I would be leery of immersing the sleeves in cold salt water. That sounds very corrosion to me. Possible future problems with the sleeve/block interface.

I like the dry ice idea, myself. Colder and non-corrosive. Just my opinion.

 

[CurlyDave]

Eddie:

Thanks for the reply.

I think I understand how this works.

Here are the areas I am wondering about Picture .

I am hoping that the deposits I see are either not scale or are not in the sealing area.

Dave

P.S. Anyone have any idea how I attach a picture with a Mac. Every time I try, it hangs up. I seem to be able to store them online and then put in the URL as a work around.

 

[CurlyDave]

Eddie:

Thanks for the reply.

I think I understand how this works.

Here are the areas I am wondering about Picture .

I am hoping that the deposits I see are either not scale or are not in the sealing area.

Dave

P.S. Anyone have any idea how I attach a picture with a Mac. Every time I try, it hangs up. I seem to be able to store them online and then put in the URL as a work around.

 

[john_bud]

If you use liquid nitrogen, the sleeves will shrink about 0.005" and will literally drop right in. A compressed gas place will be able to sell you LN2 (symbol for liquid nitrogen). A big coleman cooler to hold the liners, filled with LN2 will do ya. But (important) don't ever ever seal a container of liquid gas it will expand and pop. You will probably have to put the cooler in the back of a pickup - N2 could smother you to death in a closed car. But you are in Texas and everybody has a pickup, right? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh yeah, you will need big thick gloves and some pliers too as the sleeve will be so cold it will literally freeze your skin to it.

Great work get'n 'er done!

jb

 

[john_bud]

If you use liquid nitrogen, the sleeves will shrink about 0.005" and will literally drop right in. A compressed gas place will be able to sell you LN2 (symbol for liquid nitrogen). A big coleman cooler to hold the liners, filled with LN2 will do ya. But (important) don't ever ever seal a container of liquid gas it will expand and pop. You will probably have to put the cooler in the back of a pickup - N2 could smother you to death in a closed car. But you are in Texas and everybody has a pickup, right? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh yeah, you will need big thick gloves and some pliers too as the sleeve will be so cold it will literally freeze your skin to it.

Great work get'n 'er done!

jb

 

[CurlyDave]

LN2 is available almost everywhere on earth.

I used to work at a company which shipped many products in LN2. We could get the containers refilled almost everywhere. The original reason for this was the beef industry. Bull semen is shipped in LN2.

Eddie: If you try LN2 do only one liner and get it completely in before you do the second. I knew a guy 30 years ago who had access to LN2 and thought it would be great to shrink the valve guides on a Jaguar engine he was rebuilding. Well, they didn't shrink--they permanently expanded. Some kind of funny alloy. He had to buy new ones.

I don't think this is very common, but it has happened.

the sleeve will be so cold it will literally freeze your skin to it.

This can be an issue with dry ice also. If your skin does freeze to it, don't rip the skin away -- pour warm water on it. If you don't have any warm water handy, the official US Navy method of getting the skin unfrozen is to pee on it.

 

[CurlyDave]

LN2 is available almost everywhere on earth.

I used to work at a company which shipped many products in LN2. We could get the containers refilled almost everywhere. The original reason for this was the beef industry. Bull semen is shipped in LN2.

Eddie: If you try LN2 do only one liner and get it completely in before you do the second. I knew a guy 30 years ago who had access to LN2 and thought it would be great to shrink the valve guides on a Jaguar engine he was rebuilding. Well, they didn't shrink--they permanently expanded. Some kind of funny alloy. He had to buy new ones.

I don't think this is very common, but it has happened.

the sleeve will be so cold it will literally freeze your skin to it.

This can be an issue with dry ice also. If your skin does freeze to it, don't rip the skin away -- pour warm water on it. If you don't have any warm water handy, the official US Navy method of getting the skin unfrozen is to pee on it.

 

[whitetiger]

You do not cool or freeze WET sleeves when installing in the block. All this talking of chilling them is for DRY sleeves only as they can be as much as .005" interferance fit.
When installing a wet sleeve you clean out the step at the top of your block and the sealing surface near the bottom, lube your seals with liquid soap and set that puppy in the hole. It will freely go till the sealing rings (o-rings) contact the bottom of the water jacket. Check your sleeve for proper index with the crank (notches in bottom of sleeve). At this point lay a peice of clean hard wood across the top of the sleeve and while holding the wood tap the sleeve home. Do not hit it hard, just gentle raps with a 2LBS hammer.
You could also make a fixture that will bolt to the top of the block going across the sleeve and push it down with a small hyd jack.

 

[whitetiger]

You do not cool or freeze WET sleeves when installing in the block. All this talking of chilling them is for DRY sleeves only as they can be as much as .005" interferance fit.
When installing a wet sleeve you clean out the step at the top of your block and the sealing surface near the bottom, lube your seals with liquid soap and set that puppy in the hole. It will freely go till the sealing rings (o-rings) contact the bottom of the water jacket. Check your sleeve for proper index with the crank (notches in bottom of sleeve). At this point lay a peice of clean hard wood across the top of the sleeve and while holding the wood tap the sleeve home. Do not hit it hard, just gentle raps with a 2LBS hammer.
You could also make a fixture that will bolt to the top of the block going across the sleeve and push it down with a small hyd jack.

 

[HGM]

Guys, these are all good ideas, but isnt a freezer a common appliance? I mean a deep freezer used for keeping meat.. Most everyone I know here has one, plenty big enough to hold 6 sleeves... Just curious, the other ideas will work but I'm thinking simplicity.. Also, a space heater under the engine with plywood leaned up againt the dozer should help get the block hot.. The sleeves should just about drop in..

 

[HGM]

Guys, these are all good ideas, but isnt a freezer a common appliance? I mean a deep freezer used for keeping meat.. Most everyone I know here has one, plenty big enough to hold 6 sleeves... Just curious, the other ideas will work but I'm thinking simplicity.. Also, a space heater under the engine with plywood leaned up againt the dozer should help get the block hot.. The sleeves should just about drop in..

 

[bbse]

I would check into what whitetiger just said. I just finished a rebuild on my engine and it had dry sleeves. I believe he is correct in his statement that freezing is for the press fit dry sleeves. Wet sleeves should drop in and be sealed by some type of O ring. Mine not only had dry sleeves they were the thin can liners and had to be cut out. Then the shop froze the thin liners, heated the block and dropped the new liners in.

 

[bbse]

I would check into what whitetiger just said. I just finished a rebuild on my engine and it had dry sleeves. I believe he is correct in his statement that freezing is for the press fit dry sleeves. Wet sleeves should drop in and be sealed by some type of O ring. Mine not only had dry sleeves they were the thin can liners and had to be cut out. Then the shop froze the thin liners, heated the block and dropped the new liners in.