Water Wagon Tow Capacity

[gwdixon]

If I understand you right, just watering trees, gravity flow will be fine and a pump really is not needed. That is putting water onto the ground at base of trees if I understand correctly.

I tried the gravity flow thing. Flow rhymes with slow - which is what it is. Painfully slow. Keeping the tank low to the ground makes it even slower. As the tank drains it gets slower yet. Did I mention "slow"?

I bought a little Honda water pump. Not the smallest but the next size up. It is a WX15 - 72 gallon/minute but it is run at about half throttle.

The pump cut the watering time in half. It is still 5 hours with all the moving of the tank, dragging hoses, and refilling the 450 gallons.

 

[AxleHub]

I tried the gravity flow thing. Flow rhymes with slow - which is what it is. Painfully slow. Keeping the tank low to the ground makes it even slower. As the tank drains it gets slower yet. Did I mention "slow"?

I bought a little Honda water pump. Not the smallest but the next size up. It is a WX15 - 72 gallon/minute but it is run at about half throttle.

The pump cut the watering time in half. It is still 5 hours with all the moving of the tank, dragging hoses, and refilling the 450 gallons.

For point of understanding,
1. how far are the trees from your water source?
2. How big an area are you actually watering?

 

[LD1]

The factor missed in your post, is torque.
Using your example of the ztr vs the bx. If yours is gas and 27 hp your actual cutting performance would be different than a 27 hp diesel. Why? Because horsepower is measured mostly in an unloaded condition. A loaded condition is reality.

Example - same deck widths but one is cutting 3 inch bluegrass and then cutting 5 inch bluegrass. Big difference in performance speed and numbers because TORQUE is different than hp.

Torque is what allows the BX to just flat out do things the craftsman wont.

But HP factors that time in and is a REAL world measure of how fast one can expect the work to get done.

Torque can be changed with gearing as well. If I wanted, I could make that craftsman have WAY more torque than the BX. But Speed would suffer.

The more HP, the quicker the work will get done, PROVIDED it has enough torque and ability to do the job in the first place.

 

[gwdixon]

For point of understanding,
1. how far are the trees from your water source?
2. How big an area are you actually watering?

1. The 450 gal. water wagon is used with a 100', 5/8" hose - so I'm within 100' of the water source.

If you mean the refill point, it is about 500 yards away.

Twenty years ago, when the original trees were planted, 1" black pipe was run from the well pump to the orchards along the fencelines. Multiple Rainbirds were used to water the 600 trees. The pump ran constantly for a week and changing the Rainbirds was a muddy mess. Then every three weeks from April to November the procedure was repeated. Eventually, the black pipe deteriorated, cracked, got "tractor disease", and other maladies.

2. The trees are located within a 5 acre area. Five stops are required to reach all of the new seedlings amongst the established trees.

The pump is used at half throttle since many of the trees don't have watering rings and the lower flow gives time for the water to soak in a bit.

Another thing that I discovered about gravity flow is that the trees that are uphill from the tank don't get much water without using a pump. Amazing how that works.

Too much information but you did ask.

 

[Smallplot]

I tried the gravity flow thing. Flow rhymes with slow - which is what it is. Painfully slow. Keeping the tank low to the ground makes it even slower. As the tank drains it gets slower yet. Did I mention "slow"?

I bought a little Honda water pump. Not the smallest but the next size up. It is a WX15 - 72 gallon/minute but it is run at about half throttle.

The pump cut the watering time in half. It is still 5 hours with all the moving of the tank, dragging hoses, and refilling the 450 gallons.

If you are using 5/8 inch hose it will be slow yes. But using a 2 1/2 in ball valve into the same size or slightly bigger hose is not slow. It would empty your tank in minutes and not hours like with a garden hose attached.

 

[AxleHub]

If you mean the refill point, it is about 500 yards away.

Twenty years ago, when the original trees were planted, 1" black pipe was run from the well pump to the orchards along the fencelines. Multiple Rainbirds were used to water the 600 trees. The pump ran constantly for a week and changing the Rainbirds was a muddy mess. Then every three weeks from April to November the procedure was repeated. Eventually, the black pipe deteriorated, cracked, got "tractor disease", and other maladies.

2. The trees are located within a 5 acre area. Five stops are required to reach all of the new seedlings amongst the established trees.

I admit to being confused. Tree seedlings take alot of watering for years - not just months. They need an inch of net water per week from whatever sources.

It would seem the amount of water needed and the amount of years involved getting the seedlings estalished would support getting a line running back to the property.

Once you have the line again, you could have several points where 200 feet of hose would then attach for watering the trees.

I would think using the BX to install the line would be a better use of the tractor. I'd also think you spend ALOT less total time watering over the next three years and you'd spend a lot less money compard to a trailer and years of fuel usage.

But the real end goal is to allow seedlings to become fully developing trees. Because your water supply is only 500 yards away, it seems this idea allows you to have a better job, less overall investmet of money, far less time invested AND an ability to get helpers easily when needed ( vacations, help in droughts, etc) whether it is a high school kid, friend, wife, or son/daughter, or parent).


Just my perspective.

 

[gwdixon]

If you are using 5/8 inch hose it will be slow yes. But using a 2 1/2 in ball valve into the same size or slightly bigger hose is not slow. It would empty your tank in minutes and not hours like with a garden hose attached.

Good idea. My 6" seedlings would appreciate all that water at once.

And 200+ of them would only require a few more fill ups of the water wagon.

 

[gwdixon]

I admit to being confused. Tree seedlings take alot of watering for years - not just months. They need an inch of net water per week from whatever sources.

It would seem the amount of water needed and the amount of years involved getting the seedlings estalished would support getting a line running back to the property.

Once you have the line again, you could have several points where 200 feet of hose would then attach for watering the trees.

I would think using the BX to install the line would be a better use of the tractor. I'd also think you spend ALOT less total time watering over the next three years and you'd spend a lot less money compard to a trailer and years of fuel usage.

But the real end goal is to allow seedlings to become fully developing trees. Because your water supply is only 500 yards away, it seems this idea allows you to have a better job, less overall investmet of money, far less time invested AND an ability to get helpers easily when needed ( vacations, help in droughts, etc) whether it is a high school kid, friend, wife, or son/daughter, or parent).


Just my perspective.

The particular type of tree, eucalyptus, is drought tolerant and can become self-sufficient in two years. The seedlings can survive on a deep watering once a month.

As stated, the water line idea was tried, sat idle for several years and was removed.

Once these seedlings are established the water wagon will be sold and result in no net cost - might even turn a profit.

 

[MikeInEburg]

Be mindful that there is a HUGE difference between a trailer and a wagon. A wagon has at least four wheels and a pivoting axle at the front. The consideration is that a trailer provides tongue weight to increase traction of tractor, where a wagon not only provides no additional weight, but is more susceptible to jackknife due to pivoting front axle.
Mike.

 

[NevadaMOGuy]

Thanks for all the suggestions and input guys. :thumbsup:

I talked to one of the companies sales guys today and ordered me a 300 gallon water wagon.

I was on the edge of getting the 200 gallon because of some ideas and concerns brought up in this thread, but the main selling point was there is only a $300 difference in price between the two and I can always put in less water.

$3300 should be a good investment in the hear-n-now and the future.

 

[Smallplot]

Good luck with your new purchase. We will be expecting an update on how everything works for you.

 

[boggen]

Thanks for all the suggestions and input guys. :thumbsup:

I talked to one of the companies sales guys today and ordered me a 300 gallon water wagon.

I was on the edge of getting the 200 gallon because of some ideas and concerns brought up in this thread, but the main selling point was there is only a $300 difference in price between the two and I can always put in less water.

$3300 should be a good investment in the hear-n-now and the future.

with others low to the ground trailer possibly double axle trailer, with a brake installed on it. with a hand lever mounted on stearing wheel of tractor to control brake. i might suggest a water tank that is made to fit in back of a pickup truck. they are generally made to be not as high vs other water tanks.

TIP: do a search for "septic tanks" on the internet then once on a given website then look for water tanks. searching for "water tanks" is useless search and returns ugly mess to sort through. ((been there done that many times)) 80% of websites over the years that sell septic tanks also sell tons of different styles of other water tanks. some with baffles.

a PTO driven water pump possibly. if or on-demand eletrical pump. to drive some custom made booms. one boom for each side of tractor.

i can not picture how each boom would work or be placed right this minute. but the booms would be close enough to you in the seat that you could easily rotate them away from tractor out towards a sapling. and at very end of the boom. the pipe for water would be a 90 pointing down and a short piece of pipe. near you would be a LP or nature gas shuf off valve. and the water line would be 1" pipe. valve on each side (one for each boom)

i say lp or natural gas shut off valve, due to it only takes 90 degrees between fully opening and fulling closing the valve, and the handles are large enough to easily grab on to. and if not, on most of the valves you can undo a nut. and put your own custom made larger handle on the valve.

perhaps a metal bracket over rear fenders. and a rod welded on sticking up. boom placed over the rod to allow it to rotate. ((boom = A frame but on its side))

==============================
if you are on a well

for quicker turn arounds on refilling tank. might suggest setting up a secondary tank above ground, near your source water. and putting an "auto fill valve" in it. for say cattle watering tank, or epdm liner pond to keep same water level all the time or for a pool to maintain a water level.

then place another valve (ball valve, gate valve, regular gate valve (example garden hose hook up on side of your house) between auto fill valve and source water. and turn it down some so it only dripples water in.

this will allow this secondary tank to slow fill up over the night / day. and allow the well to keep up with the flow, without a lot of worry of possibly running the well dry. when it comes time to refill the tank on the trailer. hopefully this secondary tank sits high enough, that you can plumb in a 2" pipe into the bottom of it. and just let the water gravity flow right into the tank on the trailer. and within a few minutes you will be ready to go back watering trees.

=====================
another option, i know you hated idea of running pipe down and around trees, i also hate any sort of spirnklers or nozzles that can easly get plugged up. i allways end up muddy, cleaning them up.

Koiphen.com a good amount of folks there have 100 gallons to 1,000 gallons of water that needed to be dumped in a quick order, when they clean there filters once a week on there ponds. a good amount folks there have created there own. watering setup to water trees and yards and bushes.

many of them will install 1" to 3" pipes around the yard as mains. and then run short pipe near were they want, and then use a short peice of black plastic pipe, with some holes in it, either created by running pipe over a table saw, or drilled holes into the pipe with a regular drill / bit.

if they were good, most of them never needed to use a valve, and if they wanted more water in a certain area, they would just drill another hole into the pipe. if they had to much water in a given area, they were in trouble. and may need to replace the pipe. or perhaps use a tire patch kit. or something to push some rubber in a hole to plug it up.

the reason for the slits in the pipe or drilled hole. were due to the water was fish poo, and other muck that came out of there filters. and this muck would quickly plug up sprinkler heads and like. and the slits in the pipe or drilled holes in the pipes would not clog up and if they did not as quickly. and easier to clean with just a nail being picked into them, or like.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I may be plowing old ground as I do not have time to read all 6 pages of this post. I hope this does not throw cold water; Page G-7 of the BX25 shop manual (I have a BX25 also) gives implement limitations. Max towed trailerload on drawbar, not the 3PT, is 1765#. Max drawbar down load (tongue weight) is 550#. You would be really asking for it if you used a 3PT drawbar attachment, probably disastorus.

Try to get a tank with baffels in it to minimize weight shifting. If I remember my old days the military water buffalo does not. I say a few of those turned over in tyraining and in Vietnam as they have a very high center of gravity. Keep that weight as low to the ground as you can. You do not want the dynamics of water sloshing and the weight to be the tail that wags the dog.

In spite of the ROP you are very vulnerable in a roll over accident.

Ron

 

[NevadaMOGuy]

I may be plowing old ground as I do not have time to read all 6 pages of this post. I hope this does not throw cold water; Page G-7 of the BX25 shop manual (I have a BX25 also) gives implement limitations. Max towed trailerload on drawbar, not the 3PT, is 1765#. Max drawbar down load (tongue weight) is 550#. You would be really asking for it if you used a 3PT drawbar attachment, probably disastorus.

The Water Wagon is kind of "lowish" to the ground.

The sales guy ensured me that my kubota could handle the 300 gallon setup and if I had issues just fill it less, but the price difference between the 200 and 300 wasn't enough to go with the 200 only.
Probably just going to go with 100 gallons at first to see how everthing goes and work my way up.

He said the 200/300 wagons were designed from the ground up for lower tow height from UTV/ATV/Compact Tractors.

Not using the 3PT just connected right to the bar.