USA Spitfire WWII

[mddorange]

The man that was in charge of converting the Packard production lines to build aircraft engines was Lavern Pentland from Dunganon Ontario . The Rolls engineers could not grasp that semi skilled workers could rapidly build precision engines on an assembly line . Rolls machinists hand fitted every engine part to each other . The Rolls representatives were dumbfounded when any Packard piston/rings/pin/rod/bearing set could be mixed and matched and fit within spec in any cylinder .
Lavern also bid on and won the contract for something they had no idea what it was at the time . It was a long precision machined heavy tube with a slight decreasing internal taper in the diameter from one end to the other . They also machined a steel plug that would slide into the tube but start to bind and stop about 1/2 way down the bore . There was a ledge inside the tube that ensured the plug had a hard stop near the far end of the tube . No one could figure out how that plug was supposed to squeeze down the taper to the far end of the tube . At the machine shop they had no idea what blueprints with a Manhattan Project title ment . They built 13 assemblies for the Little Boy Bomb.

Great info.

My Grandfather and father worked on the building of the Oak Ridge plant. It was so secret that no one person could work on more than one small section.

 

[dmccarty]

FWIW the Allison V-1710 also had a marine version that was used in the (plywood) PT boats...

And after the war, the surplus Allison engines were used in quite a few private boats since they were powerful and cheap.

Pretty sure they have one or two on display at the Eight Air Force museum in Savannah, GA. Great place to visit.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

The man that was in charge of converting the Packard production lines to build aircraft engines was Lavern Pentland from Dunganon Ontario . The Rolls engineers could not grasp that semi skilled workers could rapidly build precision engines on an assembly line . Rolls machinists hand fitted every engine part to each other . The Rolls representatives were dumbfounded when any Packard piston/rings/pin/rod/bearing set could be mixed and matched and fit within spec in any cylinder ...

Similar situation with radar. The British were way ahead of the US in radar technology but they could not build enough radar sets quickly enough. If I remember correctly, the magnetrons were took quite a bit of time to make because the Brits where machine blocks of material into the complicated shapes that were needed. They came to the US and talked to one of the big US manufacturers who studied the design and figure out to make the parts fast, cheap, and in large numbers. Twas really quite simple but brilliant, or as the Brits would say, cunning. Instead of machining the part from one block of material they broke it down so that built the part from many stamped pieces. They figured they stamp out the shapes they needed in thin metal and then stack the plates together to create the final part. Once the stamping machines were setup they could stamp out gazzillions of plates per day at very little cost and enable large numbers of radar sets to be built.

The US had some many cheap radar sets we could afford to put radar in planes, ships and on land in large numbers. The Germans did ok but the Japanese really suffered from a lack of decent radar in sufficient numbers.

Later,
Dan

 

[CobyRupert]

And after the war, the surplus Allison engines were used in quite a few private boats since they were powerful and cheap.

Dan

...and (pulling) tractors!

 

[MossRoad]

 

[turnkey4099]

Yes and most people don't know that the infamous P51 Mustang was originally built for the UK. When we delivered it, it had an Allison V-1710 engine which greatly limited its high altitude ability and range. The replacement of the Allison with a Rolls-Royce Merlin engine by England resulted in the P-51B/C (Mustang Mk III) model and transformed the Mustang's performance at altitudes above 15,000 ft, allowing the aircraft to compete with the Luftwaffe's fighters.

So, what did the US do for their P51's? The definitive version, the P-51D, was powered by the Packard V-1650-7, a license-built version of the Rolls-Royce Merlin 66 two-stage two-speed supercharged engine and was armed with six .50 caliber (12.7 mm) M2/AN Browning machine guns.

And the original P51 was a "camel back", i.e., the bubble canopy replaced that, Made an entirely different looking airplain. IMO modified P51 versions were the best looking A/C of WWII

 

[bunyip]

A few bits of spitfire trivia:
Some came with counter rotating props, not sure how many there were though.
All Rolls Royce aircraft engines had names of birds, The Spitfire was a Merlin.
There were some pink spitfires, very pretty you say but they were very difficult to see in the air rendering them almost invisible to other fighter aircraft.

 

[cqaigy2]

My father used to say, fighter pilots were crazy, also said that he was real happy to have those crazy guys around when they flew bombing missions. :thumbsup:

 

[Egon]

The engines of those planes were under constant revision"

 

[oldballs]

Thanks bunyip.
I was nine years old in 1941. ... am still enamored at the WWII documentaries .... especially the Air Force... As a kid I made model airplanes of the P-51 and drew pictures of the various aircraft....IIRC the cereal boxes had silhouettes of various aircraft that we studied so as to identify etc. My Dad worked at the North American Aircraft plant making the B-25. Recently, the TV had a showing of the John Wayne "Flying Tigers" movie.... guess I've seen it at least 5-6 times.

Cheers,
Mike.

 

[UpstateSC_Papi]

Great story! Love watching and reading anything I can about WWII. Not sure why I have the fascination. The book "Freedom's Forge" is a good read if anyone has read it. I'll have to see if I can find a copy of "Herky; The Memoirs of a Checkertail Ace".

 

[2LaneCruzer]

A few bits of spitfire trivia:
Some came with counter rotating props, not sure how many there were though.
All Rolls Royce aircraft engines had names of birds, The Spitfire was a Merlin.
There were some pink spitfires, very pretty you say but they were very difficult to see in the air rendering them almost invisible to other fighter aircraft.

I know I have posted this elsewhere, but I will post it again for those that were unaware. I recall watching the movie "Battle of Britain" and was taken aback, when I realized that both the German Heinkels and the German Messerschmidts were equipped with ROLLS ROYCE ENGINES. I did some research, and it turns out these planes were purchased from the Spanish Air Force, and they were outfitted with the RR because the German engines were unavailable at the time.

 

[MossRoad]

A few bits of spitfire trivia:
Some came with counter rotating props, not sure how many there were though.
All Rolls Royce aircraft engines had names of birds, The Spitfire was a Merlin.
There were some pink spitfires, very pretty you say but they were very difficult to see in the air rendering them almost invisible to other fighter aircraft.

It's CONTRA-ROTATING props, not COUNTER-ROTATING props.

 

[k0ua]

Moss, if I hang around TBN long enough, I learn stuff.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss, if I hang around TBN long enough, I learn stuff.

I can't remember where I learned that.... I was reading about twin engine airplanes many years ago, and it said "counter rotating props" and I thought to myself.... the only counter rotating props I've ever seen were on those stupid Russian bear bombers that get intercepted off the coast of Europe, Canada, U.S. etc... a few times per year.
Tupolev Tu-95 - Wikipedia
So I googled up that TU-95 and found the term I was using "counter rotating" was incorrect, and it is "contra-rotating".

The twin engine airplane I was looking at did indeed have "counter rotating" props, and, I guess, they are quite common on twin and 4-engine propeller aircraft. Has to do with balancing the plane, torque rolling the plane, and making one engine not more critical than the other, etc...

Which goes back to our P-38 discussion and the Allison engine, which could be spun clockwise, or counter-clockwise rotation with minimal part swapping..... they had right and left hand configurations.

Lockheed P-38 Lightning - Wikipedia

 

[MossRoad]

Link goes to the section about reversing rotation on the Allison...

Allison V-171 - Wikipedia

 

[MossRoad]

Here's one from that article that is most interesting....

"Comparisons between Allison engine and the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine are inevitable. What can be said for the Allison is that it made more power at less boost with a longer time between overhauls and the part count was nearly half that of the Merlin engine which greatly facilitated mass production."

 

[MossRoad]

I wish they would have shown the other side of the engine where the poor guys are hand cranking this monster! :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

And Jay Leno's Merlin...

 

[MossRoad]

Now you've got your Allison v-12's, and they sound OK.