Understanding Curb Weight, GVWR, Towing and CDL requirements

[MGP4506]

On a different thread, I've discussed possibly getting a small truck, trailer and mini excavator and the feedback I've received has been very helpful. Now, I have a specific question regarding weights and CDL requirements.

If I have a class 6 truck (GVW 19501-26000) that have a bed empty, fueled weight of 10k pounds, then I should be able to put up to 7.99 tons of gravel it it and still be below the CDL requirements, correct?

If I have a trailer and mini ex that weighs 9900 pounds and pull it with that same truck (empty, of course), then I am still below CDL requirements, correct?

I want to make absolutely certain I understand what the rules are before I go buying a truck and excavator only to discover I've missed something with the weight and CDL requirements.

I've read the DOT website requirements and I think I understand but I trust you folks to give me insights that can't be gleaned from just reading government regulations.

Thanks!

Omega Woods

You have to look at 2 different weights. The vehicle(s) actual weight(s) and the GVWR for the vehicle(s) whichever is the greatest or a combination (actual / GVWR) of those. Example the truck's GVWR weight is 14,000 lbs. and an actual weight of 10,000 lbs. The trailer's GVWR is 12,000 lbs. but has an actual weight of 12,500 lbs. so for licensing purposes the combination weight is 26,500 lbs. (truck's GVWR is the highest of the 2 weights and the trailer's actual weight is the highest).

Also, a truck does not have a range for GVWR unless it is built as an incomplete chassis in which case the end manufacture has to assign the GVWR.

 

[LD1]

So; what I'm unclear on; a simple class 2 or class 3 truck; what's the max non CDL trailer? Could a 15999 truck pull a 20k trailer? What about a 9999 truck? Are we still work with the 36000 total combination? Or are we automatically talking about a CDL A for a 10,001 trailer with an SUV?

Dont know how to make it any clearer. Read the black and white....or follow the flow chart.

IF the trailer is 10k or less.......what matters is ONLY the tow vehicle needs to be under 26k.

If the trailer is OVER 10k.....then the whole combination needs to stay under 26k

So NO you cannot tow a 20k with a 16k truck without a CDL.

Basically......any trailer under 10k is like it dont exist in the eyes of this law.

 

[MGP4506]

Looks like 3rd picture didn't load.

The reason I don't like a 16k dump trailer is simple, they are longer, less maneuverable, and worse in a tight area then a similar dump capacity sump truck. It's not that you can't so 80% of the same stuff.


So; what I'm unclear on; a simple class 2 or class 3 truck; what's the max non CDL trailer? Could a 15999 truck pull a 20k trailer? What about a 9999 truck? Are we still work with the 36000 total combination? Or are we automatically talking about a CDL A for a 10,001 trailer with an SUV?View attachment 792889

No 26,001 lbs. is the magic number. Yes the trailer has to be over 10,000 lbs. Actual or GVWR to be counted for licensing. So technically you can be 36,000 lbs. The truck 26,000lbs. and trailer 10,000 lbs. or less and not need a CDL

 

[MGP4506]

The problem is with the stupid @$$ law when a guy with a pickup truck and equipment trailer even needs the same class license and training that someone driving an 18-wheeler needs.

So you are saying as long as you use a pickup you should be able to pull any size trailer you want as far as likening is concerned?

 

[paulsharvey]

So, to add to my incoherent rambling; part of the reason I say two different trucks is; the medium duty will, I assume, be a used truck, without a lot of the nice things. It's not going to be what you want to drive to the project you already dropped equipment off at; and if you have material delivered, or it's just not that kind of job, a 3/4, 1 ton, or even 5/4 ton will be nicer. You can hit the drive through, get snacks, ect way easier. An older medium duty just isn't a 'fun' truck to drive when you don't have to.

Pretty much bet your local state road or county maintenance guys, the supervisor is driving a class 2 truck, and makes the foreman or an operator drive the medium duty.

If this is a family operation, you probably will want both anyways. Also, a regular cab dump truck really isn't ideal for all the extra stuff, back pack blowers, shovels, saws, ect you will find you need with you at all times.

 

[paulsharvey]

(1) Combination Vehicle (Group A) - having a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

I understand that part; but what I didn't see is a 9,999# truck, max trailer weight.

If the OP could get a 9999 truck; what kind of trailer weight are we looking at? Seems like Commercial Truck Trader has plenty of Class 2 (6-10k gvwr) trucks in the 1 and 5/4 ton varieties. That gives him probably the most flexibility for what he wants to do.

Even still; looks more and more like a good Class 2 and a large dump trailer and/or equipment trailer. Looks like a JD35G would work with most, and JD50G would probably work with some 16k trailers; but they don't all seem to like to list curb weight on the trailer specs.

 

[MGP4506]

If your not hauling for commercial purposes, most states your exempt. Similar to race cars, live stock and such I believe

Racers back home would get ripped non stop because they used the exemption but were "professional" racers in class A toter homes and stacker trailers

Sort of. I think at last count more than 20 States have a licensing requirement (license or an endorsement) to drive a vehicle for personal use and is some also farm use if that vehicle would otherwise need a CDL to drive. Also farmers are only exempt from the CDL requirement within 150 air miles of their farm. Some States (only in their State) can exempt them

 

[MGP4506]

(1) Combination Vehicle (Group A) - having a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

I understand that part; but what I didn't see is a 9,999# truck, max trailer weight.

If the OP could get a 9999 truck; what kind of trailer weight are we looking at? Seems like Commercial Truck Trader has plenty of Class 2 (6-10k gvwr) trucks in the 1 and 5/4 ton varieties. That gives him probably the most flexibility for what he wants to do.

It's 10,000 lbs. actually. That weight comes from the federal law.

 

[aczlan]

(1) Combination Vehicle (Group A) - having a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

I understand that part; but what I didn't see is a 9,999# truck, max trailer weight.

See the bolded part.
If the trailer isn't at least 10,000# it doesn't count for Class A.

Aaron Z

 

[LD1]

So you are saying as long as you use a pickup you should be able to pull any size trailer you want as far as likening is concerned?

Maybe....maybe not.

There clearly needs a chance....but there certainly needs to be a line drawn. And whoever is just over the like will always be unhappy

But truck "ratings" have pushed higher and higher over the years. And when a person cannot even pull a piece of equipment on a 14k trailer with a dually.....without needing the SAME class license as a 80,000# tractor trailer rig....something is wrong.

Or when someone is perfectly legal with a 20year old 1-ton dually truck.....but they want to upgrade to a newer version of the same truck they suddenly need a class-A CDL???? Something is wrong.

Or someone trailer shopping and wanting to upgrade to 8k axles to get better 17.5 wheel/tires and oil bath axles suddenly needs a CDL.

Or de-rating a truck and trailer just to stay under 26k.....even though the SAME rig if NOT derated is a CDL rig.

And this isn't even poking the hornets nest of RV's.

Landscape companies and light construction companies hauling mowers, or skid loaders, or mini-excavators should NOT be required to have all their drivers get a class-A to drive a freaking pickup with an equipment trailer.

Maybe limit the operating radius like for farmers. Encourage local business....150-mile radius with a "pickup" platform. Or limit trailer length....say 30'. It would curb alot of the hotshot guys. They would still need a CDL.

Or maybe up the weight limits to reflect the modern trucks vs what they were 30 years ago.

Or even an intermediate license class for a pickup+trailer?

I don't have all the answers. But the current classifications are a joke....and NOT what was intended when CDL laws were drafted. And now it has just become about money and nothing to do with safety.