UFO's... What do you think?

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   / UFO's... What do you think? #481  
Originally Posted by dave1949

The Fermi Paradox - Wait But Why

Interesting exploration of the Fermi Paradox: If intelligent life is so probable, "Where Are They."
Well, that was interesting. And humbling. And a little depressing to think we may be the ants.

It is an interesting read. Personally I lean toward the anthill theory. I don't consider it to be depressing though, to think that we are not advanced enough to be aware of the others around us and outside of our sphere of realization. It is kind of a "Keeping up with the Jones' " type of thing. Who cares if there are others that are too advanced for us to understand, as long as we are happy inside of our anthill. If they come along someday and bulldoze our anthill for a highway, well worrying today won't change that future event. :)

WRT the idea that the filter is the difficulty of life being created, there is an interesting article about some recent information about the probability of that happening. Basically it discusses the prevalent thinking that the accidental mixture of random elements and the spontaneous transformation into an organized living organism, is too far fetched to be realistic. His premise is that the organization of the random elements is not actually required to happen by chance, instead it is happening all the time due to natural processes, and so the chances of this organized cluster of elements creating life becomes much less far fetched and possibly almost inevitable to happen regularly in the vast reaches of the universe as long as the conditions are the same.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/

It is a very interesting read. Basically summary (as I understood it) is...
- The law of thermodynamics says that all energy tends toward entropy. This would appear to contradict the idea that matter could become organised and become life without some help, at least to the point of it being incredibly far fetched.
- The misperception in this argument is that while entropy is the destination, that does not mean that "disorder" is the best way to get to entropy. A simple example is that drops of water losing enegy can form complex structures like snowflakes as they lose energy. There is no living organization required for that process, just laws of physics, yet it happens over and over again. Another example is sand dunes or ripples that form as moving sand loses energy and is deposited. In fact, the most efficient way to lose energy is often for matter to form a consistent structure that allows the energy to leave faster.
- He moved on to study the organization of organic chemicals in a heatsink (like the ocean) that would be constantly trying to cool down and lose energy. What he found is that the organic chemicals are most efficient at losing energy when they are organized, and the organized state is suprisingly similar to RNA, one of the building blocks of life.
- The premise is that in an environment where you have a large heatsink (I.E. a large body of water) that is constantly being recharged (like by energy from the sun) there will consistently be a situation where organic molecules (carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, etc) are naturally arranged into an RNA like structure just due to the continual natural loss of energy by those molecules.
- Once it is clear that the molecules are constantly organizing themselves in that way due to natural processes, then it is not so far fetched that they could form RNA based life.
- It also suggests that since the presence of planets orbiting stars is quite common when we consider all of the universe, it is not hard to picture that conditions (water being warmed by a star) would be common enough not only for life to regularly be created elsewhee, but also for that life to be RNA based, similar to ours.


Perhaps that is the fliter? Perhaps life requires RNA but RNA based life prevents the expansion of alien life forms, since there may be physical laws that prevent the accelleration of organic molecule based matter beyond the speed of light. Until we can detach our life from our organic matter, we may be stuck just due to the distance involved. It is a fascinating and thought provoking read. :)
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #482  
... Until we can detach our life from our organic matter, we may be stuck just due to the distance involved...

Not to get all religious, but that sentence made "like when we die and our soul leaves our body" pop into my head.
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #483  
Not to get all religious, but that sentence made "like when we die and our soul leaves our body" pop into my head.

lol, yeah I actually thought that too after I wrote it, although I wasn't trying to go there when I started to write the post. Interesting how you can plan a trip to go somewhere and accidentally end up somewhere else, huh? :laughing:
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #484  
Search " Walmartians " on you tube... I am now convinced I AM THE ALIEN on this strange planet.
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #485  
check said:
C'mon guys, the answer is easy - Warp Drive - or better still, a Stargate!
That's silly. Everyone on this forum would know that they would use "Tractor" beams :)
Mike
And now we know WHY! tractorbeam.jpg
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #486  
Anything flying and I don't know what it is is a UFO. So yes I believe in UFO's.
Also, this is a big universe. If others have figured out how to cross the great distances in reasonable time may visit us but would have very little reason to make contact with us. It would not take them long to figure out we are a mess and not ready for contact.
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #487  
Anyone who's interested in UFOs should listen to Coast to Coast AM, they have some topics about them pretty regular. Not as much as the old Art Bell driven show, but it's still their bread and butter. Recent show had the owner of the Black Vault on, he has uploaded all of the Project Bluebook files. Some of you may recall the late 60's tv show of the same name, where air force people investigated ufo sightings.
Ancient Aliens on the History channel is pretty good as well, posits some interesting concepts as to how primitive people with no way of communicating with others on the far side of the world shared similar styles of architecture and art depicting beings in flying craft.
And yes, I do have several feet of bookshelf devoted to ufo stuff.
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #488  
Fast radio bursts from 5.5 billion light years away.

Extremely short, sharp flash of radio waves from unknown source in the universe, caught as it was happening -- ScienceDaily
A strange phenomenon has been observed by astronomers right as it was happening -- a 'fast radio burst'. The eruption is described as an extremely short, sharp flash of radio waves from an unknown source in the universe.

"The theories are now that the radio wave burst might be linked to a very compact type of object -- such as neutron stars or black holes and the bursts could be connected to collisions or 'star quakes'. Now we know more about what we should be looking for," says Daniele Malesani.

OR, :) it could be intelligent life probing the universe. James, turn off that HAM set, you will give us away. :shocked:


EDIT: I had another thought. The burst could be a homing signal and if it is coming to us, we are on the path to home. :eek::eek:


Call me a skeptic: We don't even know what's at the bottom of the ocean, a mere 7 miles down right here on earth. We can't even find a jetliner in our own ocean.

There's no way that we can say that a little signal was broadcast 5.5 BILLION years ago. Good grief...
 
   / UFO's... What do you think? #489  
Anything flying and I don't know what it is is a UFO. So yes I believe in UFO's.
Also, this is a big universe. If others have figured out how to cross the great distances in reasonable time may visit us but would have very little reason to make contact with us. It would not take them long to figure out we are a mess and not ready for contact.

Well yeah, if they hovered in and listened in to the goings on in our Whitehouse. Not worth the effort . . . outta here!
 
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