Ubifi Rural Internet

[THEPARTYHOUND]

We generally assume the customer knows nothing about DSL deployment. The only way it is considered a "Self Install" is if there has been DSL service there before and only then if we have it in our notes and can direct the customer to where the only jack in the house is located that has the DSL signal going to it (unfiltered). It often saves problems/unsatisfactory service/truck rolls if we just do it right the first time and go through the customers IW when we are out there unloading the pair and testing it to the NID. We then make a note in the file for that location that everything (IW, filtered at the NID where possible, CAPR unloaded, pertinent test results, etc) is ready for DSL service at that location and their max attainables. This only needs to be done once, then after that it is usually a pretty safe bet that any problems that arise are inside the house and any future needed troubleshooting can start at the NID.
After completion of the install, I generally will let the modem run for a couple days then log into the DSLAM and check for CRC errors, high retrains, excessive packet loss, etc. prior to closing the order. We take pride in our work and make a point of ensuring our customers have a positive first impression when they sign up with us. It is not unusual for me to log into the DSLAM and see a customer's connection suffering, contact that customer and make an appointment to take a look at what the problem is.
US West/Qwest/Century Link (around here anyway, they went by different names in different areas when Ma Bell was broke up into the "Baby Bells") has done a very good job of giving DSL a bad rap! Its not the techs fault either. They are put under such ridiculous time constraints that they don't have the means to do a meticulous and thorough job.

 

[SouthernSky]

My issue is I have ATT dsl 3.0 getting 2.8 mbps at best. At one time they offered me 6.0 but I’m 15,000 feet from the DSLAM and I lost internet every time it rained and had to revert to 3.0. Satellite was faster, but I need VPN for work so that’s a no go.

All my neighbors have cable, but I’m 1600’ from the road and Suddenlink won’t serve me more than 400’ back. I’d pay for fiber but they have no way to connect it to the cable down the road, nor to any ATT box.

A few months ago I learned that ATT wireless internet was coming. I was excited but was quickly turned down because I was too close to the tower and the system was designed to work for customers 1.5+ miles because the signal goes above me... I’m only 2000 feet from the tower. Bummer again.

My concern with trying Ubifi is that even though I’m so close to the 4G LTE tower, that because I’m in heavy woods I won’t get an unobstructed line of sight to the tower. Ubifi acknowledged in chat that could be a problem when the leaves come back. And as close as I am to that tower (the only one for miles) I’m sometimes lucky to get one bar in parts of my brick house.

Getting an antenna above 80’ trees to get a line of sight really isn’t practical, and Ubifi says the external cables for the Wilson antennas were not designed for long distances like from the house to the top of a tree.

I’m beginning to think I’m stuck with this DSL until I die. Besides moving, is there any other way I can get faster internet?

 

[kcflhrc]

We generally assume the customer knows nothing about DSL deployment. The only way it is considered a "Self Install" is if there has been DSL service there before and only then if we have it in our notes and can direct the customer to where the only jack in the house is located that has the DSL signal going to it (unfiltered). It often saves problems/unsatisfactory service/truck rolls if we just do it right the first time and go through the customers IW when we are out there unloading the pair and testing it to the NID. We then make a note in the file for that location that everything (IW, filtered at the NID where possible, CAPR unloaded, pertinent test results, etc) is ready for DSL service at that location and their max attainables. This only needs to be done once, then after that it is usually a pretty safe bet that any problems that arise are inside the house and any future needed troubleshooting can start at the NID.
After completion of the install, I generally will let the modem run for a couple days then log into the DSLAM and check for CRC errors, high retrains, excessive packet loss, etc. prior to closing the order. We take pride in our work and make a point of ensuring our customers have a positive first impression when they sign up with us. It is not unusual for me to log into the DSLAM and see a customer's connection suffering, contact that customer and make an appointment to take a look at what the problem is.
US West/Qwest/Century Link (around here anyway, they went by different names in different areas when Ma Bell was broke up into the "Baby Bells") has done a very good job of giving DSL a bad rap! Its not the techs fault either. They are put under such ridiculous time constraints that they don't have the means to do a meticulous and thorough job.

It sounds like our DSL Worlds are very different. We run so many tickets you don't remember what house you were at yesterday let alone where a jack in a particular house is. That's just unrealistic in large markets.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

My issue is I have ATT dsl 3.0 getting 2.8 mbps at best. At one time they offered me 6.0 but I’m 15,000 feet from the DSLAM and I lost internet every time it rained and had to revert to 3.0. Satellite was faster, but I need VPN for work so that’s a no go.

All my neighbors have cable, but I’m 1600’ from the road and Suddenlink won’t serve me more than 400’ back. I’d pay for fiber but they have no way to connect it to the cable down the road, nor to any ATT box.

A few months ago I learned that ATT wireless internet was coming. I was excited but was quickly turned down because I was too close to the tower and the system was designed to work for customers 1.5+ miles because the signal goes above me... I’m only 2000 feet from the tower. Bummer again.

My concern with trying Ubifi is that even though I’m so close to the 4G LTE tower, that because I’m in heavy woods I won’t get an unobstructed line of sight to the tower. Ubifi acknowledged in chat that could be a problem when the leaves come back. And as close as I am to that tower (the only one for miles) I’m sometimes lucky to get one bar in parts of my brick house.

Getting an antenna above 80’ trees to get a line of sight really isn’t practical, and Ubifi says the external cables for the Wilson antennas were not designed for long distances like from the house to the top of a tree.

I’m beginning to think I’m stuck with this DSL until I die. Besides moving, is there any other way I can get faster internet?

Without knowing exactly your situation, condition of plant, etc., its hard to say what the max you should be able to get is. If you are on good copper, 24 guage minimum, 22 guage even better, I would expect the line to be able to transport 10x3ish at that distance pretty reliably. If it is cutting out every time it rains, check for dry rotted and cracked lines on the side of your house that are getting wet. If not, there is a customer access portion on the phone box on the side of your house...your NID. Open the customer access side of that box up and there should be what looks like a phone jack. Plug a line cord into that, and then your dsl modem, and do a speed test. Is it the same as what you get with it plugged in inside? If not, if it is faster plugged directly into your NID there are improvements that can be made to your IW, inside wiring. If it is the same both ways and you are only getting 3x1 reliably, then there are problems in the plant they are masking by turning down your speed. Not gonna lie, I have done this as a bandaid at times. Sometimes a consistent 3x1 is better than a spotty 6x1 to get someone through a weekend or till I have the time to revisit.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

It sounds like our DSL Worlds are very different. We run so many tickets you don't remember what house you were at yesterday let alone where a jack in a particular house is. That's just unrealistic in large markets.

I dont know that the market size has a lot to do with it. It has a lot more to do with the culture that has been cultivated within the AT&T, Century Link, etc. They have put such a large workload on their techs while reducing the number of techs they have employed while providing these techs with less training. Then they stick a GPS on your trucks and give you bad performance ratings if you are not going from one job to the next fast enough. They have bred a culture of productivity over quality service. The way we see it, if we don't have the time to do it right the first time, we likely won't have time to do it again!

Please, dont get the wrong idea here. I do not compete directly with ATT, Century Link, etc. I just see that poor quality service from these outfits has largely contributed to DSL getting a bad reputation when in fact if the time, attention to detail, and proper knowledge are applied DSL is a very viable option for internet service!

 

[dmccarty]

I dont know that the market size has a lot to do with it. It has a lot more to do with the culture that has been cultivated within the AT&T, Century Link, etc. They have put such a large workload on their techs while reducing the number of techs they have employed while providing these techs with less training. Then they stick a GPS on your trucks and give you bad performance ratings if you are not going from one job to the next fast enough. They have bred a culture of productivity over quality service. ...

That has been our experience as well as others in our area. The techs were doing the best they could but they cannot fix problems that are caused by the company "leadership." All of the techs tried their best, and in the end, they did manage to provide a sorta reliable service though very slow. CenturyLink can't upgrade our service but they managed to take taxpayer money and upgrade the service that goes to a couple of houses and a herd of cattle. There is a small mom and pop company moving into our county that is laying fiber and providing service to rural customers. Somehow this itty, bitty company can lay down fiber but Century cannot support there current customers in areas with denser populations. Go Figure. :confused3: Unfortunately for us, we are not in the current service path of the small mom and pop company, but we will be at some point.

CenturyLink had major phone outages in the nearby cities this week. At least they did not loose 911 service like happened late last year in another part of the country. There were at least two conversations on our local "social media" about CenturyLink problems this week. It is a constant conversation locally about poor CenturyLink service. And it ain't the techs fault. They are just the ones having to deal with the management's bad decisions.

Later,
Dan

 

[kcflhrc]

You guys have a lot of facts confused about the large Telco's when you don't have first hand experience how they operate. I take offense to it. For example this statement

" CenturyLink can't upgrade our service but they managed to take taxpayer money and upgrade the service that goes to a couple of houses and a herd of cattle."

Do you not realize the Government mandates where these new boxes are set? Not AT&T, CenturyLink etc. ? Not our fault, call someone that can do something about it.

Another myth

"They have put such a large workload on their techs while reducing the number of techs they have employed while providing these techs with less training. Then they stick a GPS on your trucks and give you bad performance ratings if you are not going from one job to the next fast enough"

Just not true. Our techs are expected to get a minimum of 4 tickets a day done and the GPS is used to dispatch the closest tech to the closest job. And our training is second to none as well is our test equipment.

People any more seem entitled to something, then they ***** about services when they live in the middle of nowhere. When I moved rural I knew my internet capabilities would be limited or non existent. I have no wireline provided broadband capability even in my area. All Broadband for me is line of sight antenna or Wireless 4G LTE.

So my recommendation, get your facts straight before you go wining on UnSocial Media

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

No offense meant, and certainly not a personal attack. I know you union guys are pretty much in lock step with whatever the company says so I should have tried to tread more carefully...don't want to offend anyone! My gosh, how politically incorrect!
My facts are very straight! I work closely with Century Link techs as we lease them dark fibers and transport their traffic into and out of a couple of different towns. I am also personal friends with the tech to the north of me and hear plenty on the follies of how the company chooses to deploy their internet services. Further, my uncle has been with Ma Bell since well before either of us were twinkles in our daddies eyes. I cut my teeth in the telephony world in the military, and when I got out and started seeking civilian employment, he strongly warned me away from, then Qwest. I have heard many stories in the time since.
What equipment are you guys using for your DSLAM? AFC? Over ATM? I would venture to guess in your more densely populated areas you're using VDSL2, but anywhere rural you guys put on the back burner and haven't updated their DSLAM equipment in a decade or better.

 

[kcflhrc]

No offense meant, and certainly not a personal attack. I know you union guys are pretty much in lock step with whatever the company says so I should have tried to tread more carefully...don't want to offend anyone! My gosh, how politically incorrect!
My facts are very straight! I work closely with Century Link techs as we lease them dark fibers and transport their traffic into and out of a couple of different towns. I am also personal friends with the tech to the north of me and hear plenty on the follies of how the company chooses to deploy their internet services. Further, my uncle has been with Ma Bell since well before either of us were twinkles in our daddies eyes. I cut my teeth in the telephony world in the military, and when I got out and started seeking civilian employment, he strongly warned me away from, then Qwest. I have heard many stories in the time since.
What equipment are you guys using for your DSLAM? AFC? Over ATM? I would venture to guess in your more densely populated areas you're using VDSL2, but anywhere rural you guys put on the back burner and haven't updated their DSLAM equipment in a decade or better.

I'm not Union, but I do all the Fiber to Premise Installs. Lucky for me I learned the fiber and jumped right in and the guys that were scared of it are now stuck working on copper cable. Been in the business for 40 years and have seen a lot as well as have other's. At 57 I still have a few years left before I can be a professional dock fisherman. But to answer your question we are doing DSLAM as well as CAF Projects. Thankfully, all I do now is fiber and I'm good with that. Fiber either works or it doesn't, not much in between like copper plant. I would say the Company as a whole works very differently state to state, I have seen it first hand. So I wouldn't lump everyone together. Legacy Embarq, Legacy Qwest, Legacy Centurytel, Legacy Level 3, all operate differently and independently. Good luck

 

[SouthernSky]

Without knowing exactly your situation, condition of plant, etc., its hard to say what the max you should be able to get is. If you are on good copper, 24 guage minimum, 22 guage even better, I would expect the line to be able to transport 10x3ish at that distance pretty reliably. If it is cutting out every time it rains, check for dry rotted and cracked lines on the side of your house that are wet.

Outside is ancient copper for sure and has been diced and spliced many times over the years by whichever ATT guy caught the dispatch. ATT put the DSL filter out at the network interface instead of throughout the house and has done well. I’ve homerun CAT 5 inside for both phone and data.

Each time it goes down they remotely test the line, set up an appointment for a tech two days in the future, then call me up hours later to say the problem is outside my home.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

I have a few problem areas that I make my best effort at keeping going. Sometimes when the copper cables are severely deteriorated with multiple bad spots in between peds it can be difficult to isolate, dig up, and replace/repair the bad spot. Worse, is that we are not putting much money into refurbishment of bad areas of copper as it is all slated to be replaced by fiber in the not too distant future. In these areas that need long sections of cables replaced, but won't happen, we just try to find the best pair we can and hope it is a little better than it was before.
Another thing that is often overlooked with DSL is bonding and grounding. While it has always been important for voice quality, it is extremely important for DSL quality. The shielding on phone cables need to be bonded to power company grounds so that the shield and power ground is at the same ground potential. If, say, the phone ground is better power can induce onto the phone cable and use it as a path back to ground. I have fixed many DSL issues over the years by simply digging a trench 40' from my ped to a power pole and connecting a ground wire from my shield to the power ground.
Another problem is that it has become common practice in many areas for Telcos to contract out cable locates. Thes locators come out, disconnect the grounds from the cable to locate it, and then either entirely neglect to replace them or do not tighten them sufficiently causing issues for anyone feeding down that leg of cable.
Something else I have seen many times is the lightening arrestor (protector) inside the NID causing problems. I can test the protector and it will test out fine, it passes dial tone no problem, but will cause packet loss, CRC errors, HEC errors, and a host of other problems on the DSL connection. Remove the protector that tested perfectly good from the loop and voila! The DSL runs clean as a whistle! I don't know why either...
Anywho, I digress. If the problem is in the outside cable plant it would be nearly impossible to help you without seeing test results from the techs meter. I guess the only other easy thing you could do on your own is bypass your protector and connect your modem directly to the cable pair coming in. If that makes a difference, and it always surprises me how often it does, it would be something that could be mentioned to the tech when he comes out.

 

[SouthernSky]

At the moment I’m not having a problem. My problem is speed. I’m looking for options to the DSL I get now. I’m wondering if Ubifi is right for me, and whether it will work when the line of sight to the tower is impeded when the heavy oak tree leaves come back in Spring.

 

[kcflhrc]

All of our test results are logged and uploaded with the ticket for any employee to see. If you are trying to run DSL on 40 year old inside wire in the home the results will be bad. But if it is a self install meaning you, the customer, decided to wave the install fee's and do it yourself. Then we only test to the outside of the home. If we come inside you pay, simple as that. I would never suggest anyone do a self install. As far as fiber installs, there is never a self install option because the Cat 5 has to be run directly from the ONT to the Router and we test wired speeds at the router. There are no guarantees with wireless, simple as that. And there you have it.

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

He already mentioned that he ran a new Cat 5 from his NID, so that pretty much rules out IW as the issue. From everything Ive read, my guess is that the reason he can only get 3x1 service is a culmination of old copper in the ground and old DSLAM equipment incapable of vectoring.
How do you guys have your fiber plant set up? PON, possibly GPON? Who makes your ONTs?

 

[kcflhrc]

He already mentioned that he ran a new Cat 5 from his NID, so that pretty much rules out IW as the issue. From everything Ive read, my guess is that the reason he can only get 3x1 service is a culmination of old copper in the ground and old DSLAM equipment incapable of vectoring.
How do you guys have your fiber plant set up? PON, possibly GPON? Who makes your ONTs?

GPON Calix

 

[THEPARTYHOUND]

Are you guys using the 716GE ONTs? Have ya used any of the 844GEs Gigacenters yet?

 

[kcflhrc]

Are you guys using the 716GE ONTs? Have ya used any of the 844GEs Gigacenters yet?

All single family homes get the 721 GE and I only have 1 MDU site using the 717GE . All of our ONT's are outdoor type, we don't install any indoor in this market. Other areas do.

 

[LukeDuke30]

To give an update on the performance of our new Ubifi internet - - we have been using Ubifi at our new house for about 2 weeks. It works great. In fact, we purchased a Wi-Fi extender, set up the security, and our in-laws who live on the other side of the property (350-400 ft away) are using our signal for their Wifi. All are working great. This is with multiple devices. I found the best signal in our house based on signal strength in the direction of the closest tower. Once or twice it has buffered, but for maybe a few seconds.

 

[newbury]

To give an update on the performance of our new Ubifi internet - - we have been using Ubifi at our new house for about 2 weeks. It works great. In fact, we purchased a Wi-Fi extender, set up the security, and our in-laws who live on the other side of the property (350-400 ft away) are using our signal for their Wifi. All are working great. This is with multiple devices. I found the best signal in our house based on signal strength in the direction of the closest tower. Once or twice it has buffered, but for maybe a few seconds.

What Wi-Fi extender and is there any vegetation in the line of site between you and your in-laws?

 

[kcflhrc]

Just keep in mine those extenders suck wireless bandwidth to talk to each other, unless you get a Mesh System. Then those talk to each other over their own wireless band.