Comparison Tym vs Branson vs ?

[Poopdeck Pappy]

You're in Round Rock. Call RCO Tractor and see if they have an LS XR3037HC. It's got 36 HP, 3 range hydrostatic transmission and a cab. And RCO is a very reputable dealer.

 

[the old grind]

... Next . . . in your search for brands and sizes . . I recommend NOT to consider distance to dealer as a priority. Dealers go out of business, switch brands or sell out all the time. If a dealer is 100 miles away or 3 miles away . . focus on finding GOOD dealers not close ones . . and backup ones too. Distance is something you can deal with . . quality and reliability is not.

. . . you desire input which is good . . But 100 responses with 6 sizes of tractors is not helping you even though readers are trying. ..

Seems shoppers are often so concerned with a dealer being the best around and the closest, as if they expect a lot of down-time for repairs, warranty issues, etc vs reliable use. You can only go so far with that. Being 'stuck with a dealer' has better options for going elsewhere than being 'stuck with a model' that doesn't perform satisfactorily.

IMO the biggest sacrifice one can make is wanting a CUT to mow as well as it works implements. This reminds me of on/off road motor bikes that are so so performers in either use. I mow ~2 1/2 ac with a 60" ZTR. No cab or AC, but if my mower needs service/repair the tractor can be kept busy. If the tractor goes on the fritz I don't have a shaggy lawn also waiting for me to get it going.

Backhoe is another thing we all want but may seldom use enough to justify hassling with sub-frame (of most BH-equipped CUTs) and also a mowing deck. (My 'mini' BH gets used so little I'd be $k's ahead to rent for the few tasks either tractor (w/SSQA) can do nearly as well. ...grubbing saplings, moving 1/4 ton rocks, etc)

This is meant as food for thought more than specific advice.

"What AxleHub, 'Pappy', and jeff9366 said", to be sure! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

btw, 'free financing' often means 'prepaid interest included' vs a 'cash price' that can be 6-10% less when totalled. Recommend CU financing for better rates, esp if borrowing against shares if possible and them then not caring what you buy with the $$.

IMO, buying used and putting some $$ down is far better than financing a showroom-new 'package' in the long run but YMMV as always. tog

 

[jeff9366]

Backhoe is another thing we all want but may seldom use enough to justify hassling with sub-frame (of most BH-equipped CUTs) and also a mowing deck. (My 'mini' BH gets used so little I'd be $k's ahead to rent for the few tasks either tractor (w/SSQA) can do nearly as well. ...grubbing saplings, moving 1/4 ton rocks, etc)

For quite a few tasks that $7,000 Backhoes are called to do, a <$400 Bucket Spade will do too, provided the FEL bucket is sturdy enough to hold the Bucket Spade rigid.

The Three Point Hitch is the key part of the tractor. Backhoe has to be removed prior to mounting Three Point Hitch mounted implements, which is most implements.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Jeff, that bucket spade may work really well in your sandy soil. In the black, gummy clay we have here in north Texas, or in the rocky soil in parts of central Texas, it (and probably the leading edge of the bucket) would get pretzeled up in about 10 minutes. It would be no substitute for a backhoe in my soil for sure.

 

[jeff9366]

Pappy: I have nothing but respect for your experienced posts, almost all of which I agree with.

However, your 'pretzel' comment I dispute based on operating experience. The Bucket Spade (at least the Bucket Spade from Bucket Solutions) is 110 pounds of very good, forged steel. The Bucket Spade is NOT going to pretzel. Bucket Spade is best mounted on a HEAVY DUTY bucket. (weakest link in a chain, etc.)

It is possible one would have to wait for somewhat dry conditions so gummy clay would not adhere to the Bucket Spade, but I do not know. The Bucket Spade is finished very smooth.

Bucket Spade is not a substitute for a Backhoe. However it will accomplish 50% of Backhoe tasks for <$400.

Bucket Spade cannot trench. It cannot "scoop" because of its shallow dish. Nor can it dig deeper than about 48" - 54" unless mounted on pallet forks, which I have never tried and would be cumbersome.

Picture #5, Post #23, was measured 54" deep on completion.

 

[paulfun9]

Jeff, that bucket spade may work really well in your sandy soil. In the black, gummy clay we have here in north Texas, or in the rocky soil in parts of central Texas, it (and probably the leading edge of the bucket) would get pretzeled up in about 10 minutes. It would be no substitute for a backhoe in my soil for sure.

My experience is that if the spade is built strong enough the bucket will get bent up. I also see a big problem with the depth that it will dig without having to create a much larger hole than is really needed. I also noticed the soil condition in the picks and would love if most of my property was that easy to work.

One other thought that comes to mind when people post pics like this is what about close areas where you cant drive right in and dig with the spade? I can squeeze the backhoe bucket into some strange places that you would not be able to get a bucket spade anyplace near without having to drive over and tear up other things that I don't want tore out or destroyed.

As for covering the 3 point when using a backhoe, when I have my backhoe on the loader is the next thing being used and its a pain to have to switch out the spade or even a ratchet rake for me just so I can load the bucket with something that needs hauled away from the work area to the fill pile or the burn pile. I haven't timed it but I am pretty sure I can mount and dismount my backhoe quicker than the spade or rake can be.

I am not trying to knock the ratchet rake or the bucket spade as they have their use but for me they are the least used tools for any of my tractors. But then there is the soil difference as well as location and room to work as well as things to work around/between and over.

 

[jeff9366]

My experience is that if the spade is built strong enough the bucket will get bent up.

I also see a big problem with the depth that it will dig without having to create a much larger hole than is really needed.

What about close areas where you can't drive right in and dig with the spade? I can squeeze the backhoe bucket into some strange places that you would not be able to get a bucket spade anyplace near.

Bucket Spade is best used on a HEAVY DUTY bucket. I recommend HD bucket when I post on Bucket Spade. I have Kubota's optional, heavy LA805 FEL. No damage to the Bucket Spade nor L2296 HD bucket after two years unsparing use.

(Again, note that I spec Bucket Solutions' Bucket Spade. There are several brands of Bucket Spade sold, some of which have had mediocre reviews on T-B-N. Bucket Solutions' Bucket Spade is Superman.)

I used Bucket Spade on standard Kubota bucket on 'B'3300SU for two years, with no bucket damage except scuffed paint. However, I am old and patient. I would not recommend Bucket Spade on a standard bucket to others with less time or less patience. Photos #9, #10.

Big hole and access points are valid.

Bucket Spade is NOT a substitute for a Backhoe. However it will accomplish 50% of Backhoe tasks for <$400.

I can store the Bucket Spade, a Ratchet Rake, a cross-drawbar triangle and a 3-Pt. lawn de-thatcher one one mobile platform dolly between uses.

 

[IslandTractor]

Regarding tractor brands, my two cents: JD and Kubota are best established and have biggest dealer network but are overpriced. NH is overpriced with smaller dealer network but long history. Kioti and Mahindra are solid well established second tier brands that offer excellent bang for the buck compared to JD/Kubota. They have fewer dealers but parts network is robust. Branson and LS and TYM also sell very good tractors but are less well established.

Using the Goldilocks principle, I think Kioti and Mahindra are the sweet spot in tractors especially if you don't need the dealer to do 100% of maintenance and repairs.

 

[AxleHub]

Regarding tractor brands, my two cents: JD and Kubota are best established and have biggest dealer network but are overpriced. NH is overpriced with smaller dealer network but long history. Kioti and Mahindra are solid well established second tier brands that offer excellent bang for the buck compared to JD/Kubota. They have fewer dealers but parts network is robust. Branson and LS and TYM also sell very good tractors but are less well established.

Using the Goldilocks principle, I think Kioti and Mahindra are the sweet spot in tractors especially if you don't need the dealer to do 100% of maintenance and repairs.

Island,

You've laid out an interesting and reasonable viewpoint . . . except you've forgotten in your listing 2 of the largest players . . Massey/Iseki and Yanmar.

I'd estimate that JD wouldn't be the same level of reliability and options it is without its 20 year Yanmar involvement with engines and tractor engineering in scut and cut. And Massey Ferguson of course with a 30 year Iseki history certainly has dealers everywhere. In fact in our region . . Most kubota dealers are now also massey dealers since 2013 because of the Agco association.

 

[IslandTractor]

Island, You've laid out an interesting and reasonable viewpoint . . . except you've forgotten in your listing 2 of the largest players . . Massey/Iseki and Yanmar. I'd estimate that JD wouldn't be the same level of reliability and options it is without its 20 year Yanmar involvement with engines and tractor engineering in scut and cut. And Massey Ferguson of course with a 30 year Iseki history certainly has dealers everywhere. In fact in our region . . Most kubota dealers are now also massey dealers since 2013 because of the Agco association.

Agree there are other brands to be considered. I don't know who makes Massey these days (I guess Iseki) but they are certainly a well established brand. I get the impression they may have less market share these days than Kioti or Mahindra but perhaps not. Yanmar of course made (? Still makes), all of JD CUT and SCUT tractors and is a major player in small diesel engines. No issue with Yanmar quality but they don't have much of an independent dealer network last I checked. I'd guess that most engine and transmission parts would be available through JD though.

 

[AxleHub]

Agree there are other brands to be considered. I don't know who makes Massey these days (I guess Iseki) but they are certainly a well established brand. I get the impression they may have less market share these days than Kioti or Mahindra but perhaps not. Yanmar of course made (? Still makes), all of JD CUT and SCUT tractors and is a major player in small diesel engines. No issue with Yanmar quality but they don't have much of an independent dealer network last I checked. I'd guess that most engine and transmission parts would be available through JD though.

I'm told Massey has been working with Iseki for 30 years now on many of the scut and cut products in that time.

Unlike many other manufacturers . . Yanmar, kubota, and iseki make much of the tractors . . Not just engines . . and all three have a reputation for being "fussy" and precise about their engineering . . as well as being innovative. Those types of traits keep tractors on the ground and not in the shop.

I can't say about other regions of the country but in the wi/mn areas mahindra and kioti and ls are not names of sales quantity or dealer quantity.

JD has reduced their smaller dealer network in exchange for franchised Tractor Centrals. Those that were smaller longtime JD dealers moved to Yanmar to a great extent or to a lesser extent to New Holland or ??

The real growth in dealers for cut and especially scut product has been the Massey quantity since 2012/2013. Many Kubota dealers also now carry Massey as well as newly created Massey dealers.

The secret expansion is also in TYM by virtue of Cabelas who offer numerous sizes and models AND full service and warranty work on the full Cabelas Land Management line made by TYM. Publicly traded Cabelas has a large quantity of stores converting to also handle tractors in a dozen states.

People made fun of Cabelas when they started selling boats and outboard motors and now they service and outsell most and are one of the larger providers of the well known brands they carry for fishing and pontoon. Will tractors and TYM be the same story? I looked several times at Cabelas and Kubota for years but Massey had a stronger product for my currents needs.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Massey is not very big in my area. I wish there were more Massey dealers here.

 

[paulfun9]

Bucket Spade is best used on a HEAVY DUTY bucket. I recommend HD bucket when I post on Bucket Spade. I have Kubota's optional, heavy LA805 FEL. No damage to the Bucket Spade nor L2296 HD bucket after two years unsparing use.

(Again, note that I spec Bucket Solutions' Bucket Spade. There are several brands of Bucket Spade sold, some of which have had mediocre reviews on T-B-N. Bucket Solutions' Bucket Spade is Superman.)


I used Bucket Spade on standard Kubota bucket on 'B'3300SU for two years, with no bucket damage except scuffed paint. However, I am old and patient. I would not recommend Bucket Spade on a standard bucket to others with less time or less patience. Photos #9, #10.

Big hole and access points are valid.





I can store the Bucket Spade, a Ratchet Rake, a cross-drawbar triangle and a 3-Pt. lawn de-thatcher one one mobile platform dolly between uses.

Again I must point out the difference in your soil being a big concern for many. Those of us who have experience know how big of a difference that is and that even heavy duty buckets can be bent even when the most patient person is using them. I do see a good use for those tools for many folks. You have no need to defend them as my uses may be different from yours just as both our uses may be different from the original poster. We both do however have to tell our experience with them in order for those asking to be able to make an informed decision based on their needs or soil conditions or even personal preference.

 

[whizdbiz2]

Regarding tractor brands, my two cents: JD and Kubota are best established and have biggest dealer network but are overpriced. NH is overpriced with smaller dealer network but long history. Kioti and Mahindra are solid well established second tier brands that offer excellent bang for the buck compared to JD/Kubota. They have fewer dealers but parts network is robust. Branson and LS and TYM also sell very good tractors but are less well established.

Using the Goldilocks principle, I think Kioti and Mahindra are the sweet spot in tractors especially if you don't need the dealer to do 100% of maintenance and repairs.

TYM makes some tractors for Mahindra with Mitsubishi or Daedong engines.

 

[IslandTractor]

TYM makes some tractors for Mahindra with Mitsubishi or Daedong engines.

Just about all of these companies have some outsourced parts or complete tractors from other manufacturers, even competitors. Most famously Yanmar as made smaller JD CUTs for years. Kioti (Daedong) at one time made small tractors for Kubota. Kioti makes (made) near clone versions of their DK and CK tractors for Bobcat, McCormick and I think a couple of other companies. I think Kioti at one point made Cub Cadet tractors too. No doubt there are dozens of such arrangements as the tractor industry is far more "polymorphous perverse" than the automobile industry and the car companies do this to. The only downside for a potential buyer to consider is that a rebadged tractor might be more difficult to get parts for from the selling dealer in the future (Bobcat has stopped buying CUTs from Kioti for example and I believe is only obligated to provide parts for 5 years). If you do buy a rebadged tractor, do your homework and find out who the real manufacturer is and what sort of part support you can be reasonably assured over the next ten to twenty years. Nobody with a Bobcat badged Kioti has any worries as other than paint and decals, the tractors themselves are essentially identical.

 

[AxleHub]

I also believe there are many product associations under various names. Cub cadets actual tractors were actually yanmar product in whole . . Design and manufacturer. Look how many kubota engines went in bobcata for decades.

But I don't always believe 2nd tier prodct is always cheaper. Someone suggested Mahindra was lower priced but I found my massey product was less money and better design and far far more comprehensive dealer network.

I've never seen a TYM dealer but Ive been at several Cabelas (their whole lineup is tym product) and they not only offer full service but they also are an inventorying parts provider for their units.

Many choices when it comes to tractors as well as sizes and designs. I believe like any commodity product . . These next 10 years will see a change in the number of providers as competition will reduce the number.

 

[IslandTractor]

Many choices when it comes to tractors as well as sizes and designs. I believe like any commodity product . . These next 10 years will see a change in the number of providers as competition will reduce the number.

Just wait until China starts producing a good quality tractor line. Clearly they have the knowhow even if currently they are just producing third rate tractors for Northern Tools etc. If they can make an iPhone and put astronauts into space, they can certainly build tractors.

 

[whizdbiz2]

Just wait until China starts producing a good quality tractor line. Clearly they have the knowhow even if currently they are just producing third rate tractors for Northern Tools etc. If they can make an iPhone and put astronauts into space, they can certainly build tractors.

If they get their quality act together and build a decent dealer network they could be formidable.

 

[DK35vince]

Cub cadets actual tractors were actually yanmar product in whole .

Only for a few years.
Prior to that they had several models made by others. Mitsubishi made a lot of their models.
Kioti made the 8354, 8404, and the 8454 models for Cub Cadet in the mid 2000's

 

[AxleHub]

Only for a few years.
Prior to that they had several models made by others. Mitsubishi made a lot of their models.
Kioti made the 8354, 8404, and the 8454 models for Cub Cadet in the mid 2000's

Interesting. I knew cub cadet had many garden tractors and lawn tractors . . but I thought their actual first venture into actual tractors is when they had yanmar making them fir them in 2006. The sc2400 and the ex products.

Just shows how dumb I am . . I didn't even know mitsubishi made diesel engines.