Two story Shop on steep grade - Help me Design/Build it!!!

[dragoneggs]

Okay it is finally time to build my dream shop! Been shoehorned into my two car detached garage for 10 years (both cars parked outside) and I am finally getting to around to 'doing it right!'.

We live on 1.5 acres of beautiful sloping view property. While blessed with a million dollar view, it does create challenges when it comes to construction/landscaping and getting around on the property.

I have finally down selected the build site location from 4 to1. Other three options were... (1) extend the existing detached garage, (2) extend the house (w/daylight basement) on one end, or (3) build a new stand alone structure on the lower part of the property. All had cons that exceeded the pro's. Here is my plot plan to give you a sense of what I am facing.



The chosen site ended being a location that I didn't consider until recently after years of contemplation. It means clearing a steep sloped area full of fir and cedar trees and locating it close to my property line and relatively close to my neighbor's home. Still a bit concerned about that, but it gives me lots of square footage that my #1 and #2 options couldn't provide, and close to my residence, easy road access, and power and water supply that #3 couldn't provide.

I plan to design and contract the major work out myself, DIY a bunch as well. I realistically expect this to take at least a year to get mostly completed. Please help me design and give me inspiration during this exciting project.

Here are my initial plans... again, a two story shop. Bottom floor will be a metal shop. Figuring 12ft ceiling with a concrete slab floor. Top floor will be a wood shop with a 10ft ceiling. Both levels will be accessible by vehicle and will have a 12ft by 10ft roll up door as well as a 3ft 'pedestrian' entry.

I am using Home Designer software from Chief Architect. Very powerful CAD program and I am pretty much a novice with it. Take a look at what I have so far... a 25ft by 40ft footprint meaning 1000 sq ft per floor. Truly looking forward to your comments, recommendations, and advice on this design/build!



All that said... please be patient with me. I do have a day job and I travel extensively on business, so this will take longer than solving such suspense thrillers as Sparc's 'Pallets in the Fields' and Kando's 'Rounded off drain plug'. Surely won't be as entertaining but maybe a few of us can benefit from this thread.

 

[check]

Good luck with it, Mark! First question: Why such a big door on the second level? Are you planning on putting a vehicle up there, and if so, how are you going to structure the floor between the 2 levels?

 

[dragoneggs]

Good luck with it, Mark! First question: Why such a big door on the second level? Are you planning on putting a vehicle up there, and if so, how are you going to structure the floor between the 2 levels?

James, these are exactly the questions/comments I am hoping to hear!

My first quick answers to your 3 questions are... 1) I don't know... and I guess... that is the answer to all three.

I do know I want to be able to easily unload a large tool or large pieces of wood/lumber in the wood shop... not through a door. I think it would be smart to be able to drive in with a small tractor to load/unload stuff.

I also know that I like a lot of natural light and ventilation especially when the weather is 'right'. I have yet to design the floor structure and I wasn't figuring on an especially strong/stiff floor for the wood shop but if it isn't a huge delta in cost then, why not?

 

[BukitCase]

If you were to make the part of the wood shop that's "on grade" a slab, you could concievably do the REST of the upper floor with I-joists - done right (and with lots of planning) the I-joist part of the floor could house serious dust collection piping with ZERO 90's (if there MUST be 90's, two 45's is less restrictive by a little bit) - I saw an upstairs shop (IIRC, on Sawmill Creek) where the guy did that - kept the shop MUCH neater looking, all the piping came up right next to, or under, the major power tools.

My wood shop area dust piping is all overhead, supported by the trusses (open ceiling) with drops (120, 240, air, dust) where necessary - they drop to 6" above head height and are all flex so they can be tied up out of the way if needed. I have specific areas for bandsaw, 2 planers, 2 jointers, 3 router tables, cabinet saw, radial saw, sliding miter saw, disk/belt sander, pocket hole station, and eventually a 4'x8' assembly table with hydraulic height adjustment. Eventually I'd like to replace the 4" piping with 6", and a larger cyclone...

wood shop - with the slab being just inside your big door, that could be your staging area for material unloading/heavy equipment, etc - Also, if you were to forego the hip roof (at least on that end) the ridge line/gable could extend enough to provide a dry parking area without usurping actual shop space.

Lower shop- if you intend any vehicle projects, 12' ceilings would be minimum for a decent hoist, plus MORE planning to make sure said hoist is in the best location for access without being more in the way than necessary. Slab thickness/steel placement would be another thing to plan for.

Floor planning - Grizzly has a shop design app on their site with scaled drawings of most of their gear if you don't already have that available.

Windows - dunno if these are made, but I think I'd look for double pane with outer panes of Lexan - Also, if you can see out, "they" can see in. Either blinds, or better - inside, lockable shutters. Out of sight, out of mind.

Doors - man doors should be steel, framing around those should have extra fire blocking 2 studs each side at door lock height, makes popping a door lock a little harder when they're trying to spread 4 feet of sheathed wall on each side. One man door on each level should be the ONLY doors that aren't locked ONLY from INSIDE.

Don't mean to sound too paranoid, but we had a breakin at my shop about 12 years ago, over $6k worth of tools and an entire summer wasted dealing with insurance. Turned out to be "friends" of one next door neighbor. These days I STILL do multiple rounds after dark, along with both Dobermans, a high intensity light and a .357. (Second reason for the .357 is the cougars that're getting bolder around here)

HTH... Steve

 

[Wagtail]

Looks like an exciting plan, Mate. I know that you've been 'considering' the placement of this shop for quite a while. (My newest mantra is: 'I'm not procrastinating, I'm thinking.'

Maybe it's an Aussie perspective but, I'm uncomfortable with close placement of trees around structures. Mostly it's to do with bushfire danger, no trees within 20 metres is a general rule of thumb, but the other side of trees is that they can come crashing down (wind/sodden ground/age).

Oh, how are you going to handle material disposal? (off-cuts, sawdust, metal shavings, etc...)

 

[Industrial Toys]

It's got to have an escalator! AND a freight elevator.

I built my drive shed into a hill and got a really bad low estimate of cost from my dirt contractor. Cost me a fortune, and hundreds of dump truck loads of material I had to find a place for. BUT, I am glad it worked out this way. LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION! Now it's where I wanted it and I wouldn't have done it if I knew what it was going to cost. A possible 20 G building ended up costing four times that with all the "little" extras! Oh, Polycarbonate doors are GREAT!

 

[EddieWalker]

I really like this plan. The location makes the most sense and the two levels work well together. I think that you have come up with a very strong solution to where to build it and how to build it!!!

 

[RNeumann]

It seems odd that the higher ceiling and doors is down stairs and further from the driveway. You don’t show existing driveways so I’m assuming a bit. With that, typically bigger doors would have easier access and the bigger space- so the higher ceiling and door would be upstairs and the lower ceiling and door downstairs.

I see very little advantage to making the downstairs smaller. The planning, engineering, design, permits, excavation and concrete will be nearly the same- so take advantage of that and double your downstairs.

Windows look good on plans but really make work spaces smaller. I’ve had much better luck with an extra row or two of glass in the sectional doors (if needed) and few or no windows on the walls. Shops don’t tend to play nice with glass. Skylights are an option if you are into that type of thing.

My guess on cost- with engineering, permits etc (all in cost). $200k with you doing some of the work.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I put no windows in my building only the polycarbonate doors because I realized on other out buildings that they just attract insects and cob webs.

I regret that I didn't build my depth just two or three feet longer. It's never BIG enough in the end. The bigger it is, the more options you have for putting stuff in there. That looks like an expensive building for the amount of floor space you are going to get.

 

[dragoneggs]

If you were to make the part of the wood shop that's "on grade" a slab, you could concievably do the REST of the upper floor with I-joists - done right (and with lots of planning) the I-joist part of the floor could house serious dust collection piping with ZERO 90's (if there MUST be 90's, two 45's is less restrictive by a little bit) - I saw an upstairs shop (IIRC, on Sawmill Creek) where the guy did that - kept the shop MUCH neater looking, all the piping came up right next to, or under, the major power tools.

My wood shop area dust piping is all overhead, supported by the trusses (open ceiling) with drops (120, 240, air, dust) where necessary - they drop to 6" above head height and are all flex so they can be tied up out of the way if needed. I have specific areas for bandsaw, 2 planers, 2 jointers, 3 router tables, cabinet saw, radial saw, sliding miter saw, disk/belt sander, pocket hole station, and eventually a 4'x8' assembly table with hydraulic height adjustment. Eventually I'd like to replace the 4" piping with 6", and a larger cyclone...

wood shop - with the slab being just inside your big door, that could be your staging area for material unloading/heavy equipment, etc - Also, if you were to forego the hip roof (at least on that end) the ridge line/gable could extend enough to provide a dry parking area without usurping actual shop space.

Lower shop- if you intend any vehicle projects, 12' ceilings would be minimum for a decent hoist, plus MORE planning to make sure said hoist is in the best location for access without being more in the way than necessary. Slab thickness/steel placement would be another thing to plan for.

Floor planning - Grizzly has a shop design app on their site with scaled drawings of most of their gear if you don't already have that available.

Windows - dunno if these are made, but I think I'd look for double pane with outer panes of Lexan - Also, if you can see out, "they" can see in. Either blinds, or better - inside, lockable shutters. Out of sight, out of mind.

Doors - man doors should be steel, framing around those should have extra fire blocking 2 studs each side at door lock height, makes popping a door lock a little harder when they're trying to spread 4 feet of sheathed wall on each side. One man door on each level should be the ONLY doors that aren't locked ONLY from INSIDE.

Don't mean to sound too paranoid, but we had a breakin at my shop about 12 years ago, over $6k worth of tools and an entire summer wasted dealing with insurance. Turned out to be "friends" of one next door neighbor. These days I STILL do multiple rounds after dark, along with both Dobermans, a high intensity light and a .357. (Second reason for the .357 is the cougars that're getting bolder around here)

HTH... Steve

Steve, you immediately picked up on one of my design dilemmas and was going to bring it up just as soon I got finished introducing the design. Just how do I design the wood floor to be at grade? I am only familiar with floor joists sitting on top of the foundation thus causing a step, or two up which of course I don't want.

Here is the framing design auto generated based on my floor plan. Obviously I don't want any wood sub grade. A slab for part of the upper floor might be a great idea for vehicles as well.



I do plan to build it securely and will make sure the doors are solid. I will install cameras and alarm. The good thing the shop is at the end of a private shared driveway so we get very little traffic that is not my two neighbors and my neighbor lady above me is a 'hawk'!