Trespassing + theft issue

ultrarunner · Aug 3, 2011

Perfect Storm in terms of the Union, Politics and Electorate.

A few years ago, the city wanted to increase the size of the force... it was able to get a special assessment approved by voters by promising to maintain a minimum force of 800.

Last round of budget cuts, always police, fire and libraries... the city cut the number of sworn officers below 800 which then meant the city couldn't collect the extra assessment and had to cut more officers.

The Union is very strong and police have the best benefits... 90% retirement with lifetime medical, pension spiking and lifetime medical... one of my High School friends went out with 29 years, plus unpaid time off and sick pay, with 180k pension. Many go out with more than a 100k

Older retirees receive pensions based on what their last rank pays today... so a Sargent that retired 25 years ago receives a pension based on what a Sargent earns today...

bdeboer · Aug 3, 2011

I wonder if a copy of the picture of them with the buckets posted in the area where they are sneaking in would be enough to get their attenion. Kind of like copies of the bounced checks under the glass at the local carryout.

ultrarunner · Aug 3, 2011

bdeboer said:
I wonder if a copy of the picture of them with the buckets posted in the area where they are sneaking in would be enough to get their attenion. Kind of like copies of the bounced checks under the glass at the local carryout.

Local Ace Hardware was sued by someone and lost because they had bounced checks on display... something to do with privacy and Bill Collection.

foreman Etexas · Aug 3, 2011

ultrarunner said:
Local Ace Hardware was sued by someone and lost because they had bounced checks on display... something to do with privacy and Bill Collection.

Theres alot of store around here do that!!I always look to see if I know anyone:laughing:,to me they shouldnt write checks there *** cant cash,and should be put in jail for theft by check............

IronHog · Aug 3, 2011

David P said:
My wife and I are wrestling with our next course of action in the following scenario and I figured I would throw it out there for all of you and ask for some feedback as I often read great posts on this forum. Here's the situation:

We closed on a lovely piece of property last fall and have started a small blueberry operation. (We have about 350 bushes now with plans to expand to 5-7 acres in the fall). Recently my wife was returning to our barn with a couple of customers and was approached by a couple of women who had been watching them from a distance for about 15 minutes as they were picking. One of the ladies was friendly, the other was a bit more gruff.

The initial conversation began with an inquiry of what my wife was doing there. It continued and included topics of blueberry prices (ours are evidently too high as Costco is cheaper), why we are doing this (college funds for our daughters), if they could sample our berries ("not THESE berries as these ladies just picked them... reply: Well, they haven't paid for them yet so they're not theirs" and how to know when we are there (we do not live on the property). My wife gave her one of our business cards which indicate that picking is done by appointment only.

My wife left this conversation with a pretty good opinion of one of the women (and later took her a free sample of the berries) and a very sour opinion of the other. She felt that she was rude and arrogant with a balsy, in-your-face personality.

The question about how to know when we are there raised my wife's antenna and since I needed evidence of deer for an out-of-season kill permit for the DNR anyway, I proceeded to set up a trail camera at the only entrance to the area of the property containing the blueberries. Within a week of the conversation I had video footage showing one of these ladies entering the blueberry section with an empty bucket (unfortunately, I did NOT have any footage of her leaving).

I spoke to the State Police about the issue and they indicated that since there was no evidence of her leaving w/the berries they were unable to do anything. I immediately followed up this meeting by placing a No Trespassing sign at the entrance to the blueberry acreage. I also purchased another trail camera and mounted it about 15 feet up in a tree.

I should also mention that the blueberries are surrounded by an electric fence (about 3 ft high) which has been doing a nice job of keeping the deer out (that's another topic). Anyway, within a week of putting this camera up I had evidence of this woman again entering the blueberry acreage, this time with her husband. The pictures show them trying to figure out a way inside the fence, crawling under it, picking berries and leaving with their stolen goods.

I believe this is the third time she has taken berries but have no proof of the first time as the camera was not up. Total value of the stolen fruit would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-25lbs of berries. Our You-Pick price is $1.90/lb and We-Pick is $3.50/lb.

I know the names and address of this couple, who incidently live in a very nice home ($250-300k). I am wondering how to proceed.

My first thought was to distribute a flyer to all of the locals with several pictures of them on it and requesting information leading to their successful prosecution. I believe the publicity would not only embarrass them but also serve as a deterent to others bent on doing the same.

I could also approach them after distributing the flyer asking them to either pay for the berries that were stolen (law provides for 3x actual value of goods stolen) or I would take this to the police.

I could also go to the police directly.

A combination of these options has also been discussed.

We are new property owners and have never dealt with situations such as this. Any thoughts and recommendations, especially from those who have faced similar circumstances, are very welcome.

I'd buy a camera with the cell phone attachment to let me know when they are there.

Then show up and tell them no to come back....ever.

Western · Aug 3, 2011

I would avoid any "public" display, and go directly to the police 1st. That is there job, save the humiliation for the outcome, if you are not satisfied with the police work.

As far as being "neighborly" They made the 1st "shot over the bow" even after your wife gave them the "rules". You know what kind of neighbor you have so deal with it accordingly. File Charges.

David P · Aug 3, 2011

Thanks for all the replies!

Update: Today I stopped by the State Police branch that patrols our area and touched base with the Sargeant. Her recommendation, based upon the attitude of the female thief and the number of times she has been back, was to have them prosecuted. I left a packet with her with a timeline, about 12 pictures (8 1/2 x 11) and copies of the MI trespassing law when stealing fruit is involved (or other crops). I asked her to have the Trooper I first spoke with review the materials and call me in the morning.

I must admit to being really torn. I believe that under MI law I am entitled to somewhere in the vacinity of $150 (3x actual damages). I would really like to approach them, either personally or by certified letter, providing them with a single opportunity to make things right or I will get the police involved.

In an interesting twist of fate I found out that my brother-in-law knows the husband (who also stole berries) and worked with him in the past. It would be kind of funny to leave the pic of he and his wife crawling under my electric fence on his desk sometime when he's not around. haha

So...... I will sleep on this another night and speak to the trooper in the morning. If my schedule permits I will post an update tomorrow night or sometime on Friday.

Mousefield · Aug 3, 2011

David P, I think you are doing the right thing in going to the police. People can make mistakes but this definitely crosses the boundary of trying/needing to be nice to them. I think even if no charges are pressed I think just having a visit from the police will be enough. They could of course mention they will be keeping a good eye on the place.
Have a good nights sleep and then let the police do their job.

Sulla · Aug 3, 2011

In New Hampshire we'd just wait for them to come back and shoot them. Just make sure they're on your property and that you don't leave any trace, you have pigs don't you?

Seriously, leave it to the cops. People who trespass and steal know the rules. Any visit to them and they'll report you, then you'll be on the defensive. Publishing anything will start world war three. One visit from The cops and they will never set foot on your property again.

ustmd · Aug 3, 2011

David P said:
Thanks for all the replies!

Update: Today I stopped by the State Police branch that patrols our area and touched base with the Sargeant. Her recommendation, based upon the attitude of the female thief and the number of times she has been back, was to have them prosecuted. I left a packet with her with a timeline, about 12 pictures (8 1/2 x 11) and copies of the MI trespassing law when stealing fruit is involved (or other crops). I asked her to have the Trooper I first spoke with review the materials and call me in the morning.

I must admit to being really torn. I believe that under MI law I am entitled to somewhere in the vacinity of $150 (3x actual damages). I would really like to approach them, either personally or by certified letter, providing them with a single opportunity to make things right or I will get the police involved.

In an interesting twist of fate I found out that my brother-in-law knows the husband (who also stole berries) and worked with him in the past. It would be kind of funny to leave the pic of he and his wife crawling under my electric fence on his desk sometime when he's not around. haha

So...... I will sleep on this another night and speak to the trooper in the morning. If my schedule permits I will post an update tomorrow night or sometime on Friday.

Assuming they are charged and it is their first offense, they may be allowed to make restitution and get the charges dismissed or have a suspended sentence.

It may seem like a minor thing and hardcore to go to the police, but what if they had come into a store you owned and helped themselves to the merchandise (or came into you house and took something they wanted).

Theft is theft.

Taylortractornut · Aug 3, 2011

About 10 years ago a customer of mine had a problem with out of towners that had lake home here gettin his apples from his orchard. One night he was out there after watching his grove. He caught a couple and their friends with 2 buckets picked. He had them at gun point. He made them eat what they had core and all. Mr. robbinson was a good old man but he had a twitch he picked up in Korea from an injury. He kinda jerks and talks really loud since he cant hear well. After
that no more apple were taken.

Id let the police handle it or catch them in person and make them eat to the bottom of the bucket lol.

Digdug5240 · Aug 3, 2011

Let the police handle it, & prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. As a property owner and past business owner I have learned from experince that it's not a good idea to confront people personally, it can get you into more legal trouble than they are in. There are some really nasty people out there that will take advantage of normal law abiding people like yourself.

Good luck and God Bless.

p.s. You are doing the right thing. They made a decision to steal from you.

foreman Etexas · Aug 3, 2011

Catch them on your place and "GIVE HIM AN GOOD OLD FASHION COUNTRY A$$WHOOPIN"!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

BoFuller · Aug 3, 2011

David P said:
Thanks for all the replies!

Update: Today I stopped by the State Police branch that patrols our area and touched base with the Sargeant. Her recommendation, based upon the attitude of the female thief and the number of times she has been back, was to have them prosecuted. I left a packet with her with a timeline, about 12 pictures (8 1/2 x 11) and copies of the MI trespassing law when stealing fruit is involved (or other crops). I asked her to have the Trooper I first spoke with review the materials and call me in the morning.

I must admit to being really torn. I believe that under MI law I am entitled to somewhere in the vacinity of $150 (3x actual damages). I would really like to approach them, either personally or by certified letter, providing them with a single opportunity to make things right or I will get the police involved.

In an interesting twist of fate I found out that my brother-in-law knows the husband (who also stole berries) and worked with him in the past. It would be kind of funny to leave the pic of he and his wife crawling under my electric fence on his desk sometime when he's not around. haha

So...... I will sleep on this another night and speak to the trooper in the morning. If my schedule permits I will post an update tomorrow night or sometime on Friday.

Unfortunately I think going to the police is the best option. You should be able to go over and discuss it with him as in Matt 18:15 but I have been burnt before trying to be the nice guy. The way things get twisted around these days, they would probably have you charged with harrassment or something.

atgreene · Aug 3, 2011

You made the right decision, but chances are the DA will opt for a quick plea with fines paid, no criminal trial.

hawkeye08 · Aug 3, 2011

If you choose not to go to the police, send the thieves an invoice for the berries. Add a fee for collection since they did not pay when picked and did not set up an appointment to pick.

bearhawk · Aug 3, 2011

hawkeye08 said:
If you choose not to go to the police, send the thieves an invoice for the berries. Add a fee for collection since they did not pay when picked and did not set up an appointment to pick.

Add an extra 100 for "After hour access."

groundcover · Aug 3, 2011

President of a big rose grower cought a woman in the rose fields picking roses. He got the license plate number and had a buddy at the PD run it and found the owner owned a big candy store/ factory in the city. One day when he was up there there on business he stopped in, loaded up a shopping basket and started out the door . The cashier stopped him and he said ask the owner to come down. He explained that the wife had been at his place of business and helped herself so here he was ,fair was fair. The candy factory guy was mortified ,send him off with the basket of goodies and one followed every Christmas for years !

These days it would probably go differently though.

Kyle_in_Tex · Aug 3, 2011

Well the couple certainly was BOLD about it. Repeat offenders. I'm with you as to what the best thing to do is, being a soft hearted guy myself. Go to cops, demand from them direct repayment and if they give attitudes, a misdemeanor trespassing (fine around $100).

It would seem that the police should have went to them after the initial pictures (which didn't catch them leaving) and told them if they trespass again they will be charged. You can go buy that light colored purple paint and paint the tops of your fence posts and that declares it no trespassing.

After reading enough posts from some of these guys, I hope my car never breaks down at night and I needed help around your places. Especially if you've been the victim of thieves lately. I absolutely know better than to knock on a door late at night. I would just sleep in the car until morning.

Here's a true story. Shortly after moving into our new home out here in the country, around 8pm past dark we get a knock on the door. My wife and I looked at each other with the "you expecting anybody" look??? After precariously looking thru the blurry crystal window and not yet turning on the porch light, I couldn't see anything but what looked like a large head but not tall. I went ahead and turned on the porch light and looked again. It was an elderly (80 year old) woman who was at the wrong house and should have been about 3 homes down the road. We didn't even have a good stairwell up to our porch yet and I was glad she didn't fall in the dark. That would have been an expensive hospital bill. Anyway, I brought her in, called her friends whom she was supposed to be visiting, and gentlemanly escorted her down the temporary stairs and to her car with a flashlight.

I sure am glad I didn't have the shoot first ask questions later mentality. It really caught us off guard. We now have a security driveway monitor, mounted motion lights for the yard, a quick pad security safe with a very nice double action pistol, and most of all I now will shout "Who is it?" before I open the door. Plans and Procedures worked out in advance usually work out the best. Ask seal team 6.