Transmission problem

[DwayneB]

My Kama 354C has developed a very strange symptom. It comes and goes when the front end is pointed uphill, something is definitely wrong. Today while brush hogging I turned on a slight incline and pushed the clutch in to roll backwards a bit, as I have done many times. This time a low frequency squeal came from the tranny while rolling back with the pto engauged. I pushed the brake and stopped. Pushed the clutch all the way in and stopped the pto then took it out of gear.. I started the cutter again and and tried to put it in gear, lots of grinding and the squeal. Slowed RPM, a little grinding but went in gear. I used the tractor for a couple more hours and everytime it was rolling backwards with the nose uphill it did the same thing.

It was almost as if the pto drive line was trying to make something turn. Back on level ground and all seems well again. Both gear boxes have the proper amount of fluid. The clutches are adjusted correctly. My throwout bearing is greasable and in good shap. Something in the transmission or creeper box sounded like it had no lube.

Chip, Tommy, Anyone. What should I look at/for? I'm going back up to the farm tomorrow and will more than likely pull the covers on both gear boxes for a look around.

 

[greg_g]

First question; creeper box?
Second question; 2wd or 4wd?

//greg//

 

[DwayneB]

First question; creeper box?
Second question; 2wd or 4wd?

//greg//

It has creeper and I was in 4WD at the time.

 

[bluechip]

When you roll backward in forward gear with the clutch depressed and thePTO still rinning the concnetric shafts in the gearbox are running in opposite directions. there is very little lube between these shafts (as it would end up in the clutch). We have seen a similar thing happen on Jinmas where a noise would happen as soon as you hit the first stage of the two stage clutch and in those cases, could remedy by overfilling the trans temporarily, letting some oil get in between the shafts.

Did the noise stop when the tractor stopped moving or when the PTO stopped turning?

In normall operation, the two shafts spend most of their time turning the same speed.

If you point the tractor uphill, the oil runs to the back of the tractor.

All sounds fine on flat ground forward and reverse?

 

[greg_g]

It has creeper and I was in 4WD at the time.

Interesting, mine is a shuttle. Didn't know the TS354C came with a creeper option.

Anyway, the transfer case is also in the approximate area you say the sounds are coming from. Chip's probably got the problem identified, but it would be interesting to try reproducing the offending noise in 2wd.

//greg//

 

[bjr]

I've read old threads from the past that talked about loose bolts from transmission to the rear engine bell housing and the bolts that held the bell housing to the engine. I would look to see if all mating surfaces look tight. I thinking something going out of alignment when go up hill or on a obscure angle. Just my thoughts. bjr

 

[DwayneB]

Did the noise stop when the tractor stopped moving or when the PTO stopped turning?

when the pto quit turning.

All sounds fine on flat ground forward and reverse?

Yup. I even mowed for 2 more hours on more level ground and never heard it but when I was on the incline and rolling backwards it happened every time.

I'll try overfilling and going to neutral when rolling back. I'm done with the brush cutting for the year. I got 90 wt in there , will more than likely go with a synthetic 85W-140 next spring and see what happens. It was near 100 here yesterday and everything was HOT!!! that probabably didn't help. That was the highest temp I had run the brush cutter in.

 

[DwayneB]

Interesting, mine is a shuttle. Didn't know the TS354C came with a creeper option.
//greg//

I think I got the last one Chip imported. I don't use it a lot though. It does come in handy when try to push stuff with loader and you want the tractor to spin instead of break something.

It's a pretty tough little tractor. Cutting 3 and 4 inch saplings with a 6 foot cutter on a 100 degree day may just about be it's limit!!!

If it breaks tomorrow I wouldn't be disappointed in how well it's held up. The driveline in this thing is tough. I've used it past what it was designed for a lot. Our farm is getting in better shape everytime I mow it.

The hour meter isn't correct, it only works when it wants. I'd guess it at around 225 hrs but, it only shows about 148.

 

[Soundguy]

Are those meters tach meters.. or straight hour meters 9 hobbs style meter.. )?

Soundguy

 

[greg_g]

The hour meter isn't correct, it only works when it wants. I'd guess it at around 225 hrs but, it only shows about 148.

A complete lack of schematics for the cluster gauges makes issues like this extremely aggravating. Do you feel your other gauges are working properly? Because an hour meter typically needs a trigger circuit, often either the OPSU or the tach. Less common, the ammeter or the voltage regulator or the alternator. If the hour meter isn't being triggered properly, it can't count accurately. Also - if it's the tach - some hour meters don't count at full speed unless/until the tach is registering working RPMs. That is, the hour meter may count slower when the engine is operating at lower revs.

But - before you start tearing into things, it may be nothing more than your concept of time. I suggest the next time you mow, make sure the throttle is set so the tach needle is at the PTO mark (the green one). Note the time on your watch, note the tenths counter on the hour meter. Mow for one hour by your watch, then see what the tenths counter reads. If in fact it's got the error you perceive, the tenths counter will only have advanced between six and seven digits.

//greg//

 

[bluechip]

The hour meter gets its signal from the tach sensor. more rpm means quicker hours, low rpm mean longer hours, just as if it was a cable operated "proofmeter". The mechanical odometer style hour meter is not super reliable. on our new Agtracs, I was glad to see them use a modern LCD display for the hour meter. Adding a Hobbs meter is not a bad idea and alot cheaper than replacing the dash panel with an expensive OEM with potentially the same problems.... This panel is common to KAMA and JInma tractors.

 

[Soundguy]

Any cahnce it is a pickup issue / adjustment? or are the meters themselves really that bad?

soundguy

 

[bluechip]

If the tack is working, the signal is OK. the sensor (adjust or replace)is the normal fix. but if the tach is reading and the hour meter is not, it is in the mechanics of the gage. they are only "this bad" when they don't work. most of them do work. We use a better dash panel on our new Agtracs and you will be happy to know... a pressure relief valve right at the hydraulic pump!

 

[Soundguy]

Hey.. nice setup... That's how it shoulda been in the first place. Considering the chinese can make many things so cheaply.. you'd think they could plumb in a quick relief valve and hose for another 10 bucks cost tot he tractor.. etc... and still keep it an 'economy' machine..

kudo's to you for the modification.

soundguy

 

[hbaird]

What pressure do you set the relief valve to relieve?
Harold

 

[zogman]

If the tack is working, the signal is OK. the sensor (adjust or replace)is the normal fix. but if the tach is reading and the hour meter is not, it is in the mechanics of the gage. they are only "this bad" when they don't work. most of them do work. We use a better dash panel on our new Agtracs and you will be happy to know... a pressure relief valve right at the hydraulic pump!

I have a question, are you saying the engine has to be running to make the meter run because my TS354C hour meter will run anytime the key is turned on. I accidentally left my key turned to the on position for 2 days and put 48 ficticious hours on mine.

 

[Paddy]

Zogman,

Same with my Kama 454. I installed a red light that would 'shine' any time the key was on. My tach is iradict but the hour meter works. Some times if a bang the dash, the tach will start to work. Sure just a loose wire but just have not taken the time to dig in to it.

Patrick T.

 

[Soundguy]

What pressure do you set the relief valve to relieve?
Harold

If you are talking about a secondary relief at the pump, that is used as an emergency safety in conjunction with the another system relief, I'd set it just a hair above the main system relief.. IE.. 15-25 psi higher than the main.. that way the main always vents first.. but if the quick connects become disconnected at the pump.. the pump is still protected at near oem value.

If you refer to something else.. please be more specific..

Soundguy

 

[bluechip]

I would have bet money that the tachs KAMA uses control the hour meter. I could be wrong. We had some early ones run up the hours. I guess I was thinking of the Kioti and Farmtracs we sell.... sorry for the confusion.

 

[greg_g]

I have a question, are you saying the engine has to be running to make the meter run because my TS354C hour meter will run anytime the key is turned on.

Not on mine. Have you checked your wiring?

//greg//