Transmission Flush

[brokenot]

Either DIY or at the dealer, whatever...All of the old fluid need to go either way...old school dropping the pan and refilling doesn't work anymore. My owners manuals suggest that this be done.

Here's a link to the manual for an '11 Chevrolet Silverado. In the maintenance section, you'll see the word "change" whenever the transmission service is due.

http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/owners/manuals/2011/2011_Silveradwner_Manual.pdf

The word "flush" appears in reference to the cooling system, as in "Drain, flush, and refill every 5 years".

In other words, they do recognize there's a difference between the terms "flush" and "change". There's no need for interpretation, of course that doesn't mean that unscrupulous dealerships have never or would never mold those clear recommendations in the manual into what they personally believe and/or what generates the most $$ for them.

I'm pretty sure your '05 manual is the same.

 

[crashz]

The transmission in my 1/2 ton is a 4L60E. It has given me 152K miles of trouble free service (knock on wood), plowing snow, towing and such. But they don't like heat or heavy loads. And it seems as though the Tow / Haul feature actually builds more heat from what I've seen on my aftermarket temp gauge.

I have had Fords and GMs, both with notoriously "weak" transmissions, that have lasted well past 100K miles each, performing typical service of the particular vehicle. I attribute the longevity to these things:

- Monitor and keep tranmission heat below 180 degrees F. I place the temp sensors within test ports in the transmission or inline with the out going cooler line. These give the best maximum temp representation.

- Change the fluids on a regular basis. I've never let the fluids get dirty or discolored in anyway. My Fords all had torque converter drain plugs, so I would do a complete filter change, drain and refill using factory branded fluid only at abouit 20,000 miles. For some reason I would get shudder with off the shelf fluids. The GMs, I use off the shelf brands, with no problem, but drain the pan fluid at each engine oil change (only three quarts) and a pan drop/filter change each summer. Haven't seen a converter drain plug on the GM's.

- Do not push the vehicle beyond its capacity. Simple. I try not to load it or tow more than the ratings. The lower the loading, the better. Keep them free of un-needed weight and make more trips if necessary. Also benfits fuel economy.



Hematite - I've never considered the lint from wiping the transmission pan down. Been cleaning them with clean rags for many years without any failure. I do make sure they are completely clean of any foreign material prior to re-assembly though. I'll keep that in mind for the next change though...

 

[Diamondpilot]

Had mine flushed at the dealer every 30-35K...Never had a problem with my '04.

Either DIY or at the dealer, whatever...All of the old fluid need to go either way...old school dropping the pan and refilling doesn't work anymore. My owners manuals suggest that this be done.

I agree. Its only getting 1/4 of the fluid out dropping the pan. Now if you want to do it every 3,000 miles you may have changed it all by the time the 30,000 mile interval comes around.

As a side not I have done this. We had a car that had a drain plug on the pain and no filter, sealed unit. Every other oil change I would drain the pain, pour it into a calibrated container to measure, then replenish.

Chris

 

[hawkeye08]

If you keep your fluid changed and don't have a bunch of deposits or crud, flushing in fine, actually can get more of the fluid changed perhaps.

BUT, if you have deposits or crud, flushing often causes problems because it not only dislodges things, it also replaces most of the fluid with new fluid that is high detergent and it WILL start cleaning those deposits and can cause a failure down the road.

If I had an unknown situation (bought a used vehicle) and wanted to take care of transmission, I would start by dropping the pan, and changing/cleaning the filter, cleaning the pan, etc. Add good quality fluid and enjoy peace of mind. (BTW, never use solvent to clean pan, use hot water and dish soap. Solvent can 'coat' things and not allow proper lubrication. I learned that in the 80's when being taught about servicing transmissions. Also, if you need to wipe things down, use paper towel, not cloth. The paper will break down if a small piece is left, where the cloth will not).

After 20-25 thousand miles after dropping pan service, then a flush would probably be ok.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

In a former life, I used to own and operate a transmission shop. It was before the days of the flushing machines. I've done considerable research on the subject and other than the enhanced profit the business generates I don't see any advantage over just a change.

On my personal vehicles I change every 30,000, sometimes less if I doing some hard pulling of the RV through the Sierra's. On those that don't have it, I weld in a drain plug to the pan at the first change.

As far as filter changes go, I cannot remember ever seeing a filter that needed changing unless the trans was already toast. If there is enough soft part material or hard part material in the filter to warrant a change, the trans needs a rebuild.

Knock on wood, but I have never had to rebuild one of my own transmissions.

orezok thanks for sharing that filter experience.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...um-1999/154002-transmission-fluid-change.html

I have done the above process on the 4L80-e in the MH and in two different 4L60-e's. I never plan to drop another pan and just do this about every 30K miles or at 5 years if 30K miles has not happened.

The cost is about the same for the four of us to eat at McDonald's :thumbsup:

 

[timswi]

Here's a link to the manual for an '11 Chevrolet Silverado. In the maintenance section, you'll see the word "change" whenever the transmission service is due.

http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/owners/manuals/2011/2011_Silveradwner_Manual.pdf

The word "flush" appears in reference to the cooling system, as in "Drain, flush, and refill every 5 years".

In other words, they do recognize there's a difference between the terms "flush" and "change". There's no need for interpretation, of course that doesn't mean that unscrupulous dealerships have never or would never mold those clear recommendations in the manual into what they personally believe and/or what generates the most $$ for them.

I'm pretty sure your '05 manual is the same.

That's how the tranny fluid is changed, by flushing...In the bigger scheme of things $160 every year or year and a half is no big deal if you have the dealer do it..I'm sure others do it cheaper...I just look for convenience. Trans flushing is the only maintenance I don't do myself...I just don't want to be bothered, and I can afford to have it done given all of the money saved elsewhere.

I wouldn't have this done by anyone but a dealer or a professional tranny shop. Don't let the quick lube guys anywhere near a vehicle if you care about it.

Don't know what kind of fluid is in the '11 though...Haven't bothered to look yet. If it's synthetic, the price is probably double.

EDIT: Just checked my manual..It's Dexron VI which is either full synthetic or a synthetic blend...not sure, but 100K is the recommended change intercal under normal use. Doubt I'll wait that long though.

http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2009/05/dexron-vi.html

 

[Diamondpilot]

That's how the tranny fluid is changed, by flushing...In the bigger scheme of things $160 every year or year and a half is no big deal if you have the dealer do it..I'm sure others do it cheaper...I just look for convenience. Trans flushing is the only maintenance I don't do myself...I just don't want to be bothered, and I can afford to have it done given all of the money saved elsewhere.

I wouldn't have this done by anyone but a dealer or a professional tranny shop. Don't let the quick lube guys anywhere near a vehicle if you care about it.

Don't know what kind of fluid is in the '11 though...Haven't bothered to look yet. If it's synthetic, the price is probably double.

EDIT: Just checked my manual..It's Dexron VI which is either full synthetic or a synthetic blend...not sure, but 100K is the recommended change intercal under normal use. Doubt I'll wait that long though.

DEXRON®-VI - GM Techlink

We do 60,000 mile intervals on the GM's I work on. Mainly diesels. We use the Valvoline Synthetic with good results.

Chris

 

[timswi]

We do 60,000 mile intervals on the GM's I work on. Mainly diesels. We use the Valvoline Synthetic with good results.

Chris

That's pretty much the interval I was thinking of..Maybe 70k...I'm kinda addicted to Castrol GTX...Valvoline is good stuff too.

 

[Diamondpilot]

That's pretty much the interval I was thinking of..Maybe 70k...I'm kinda addicted to Castrol GTX...Valvoline is good stuff too.

I really think its all how you use the truck. I run Castrol Synthetic in my Titan. Changed all the fluids at 30,000 because it has had a trailer behind it about 20,000 of them mile. Also put it in the transfer case and then put Mobil 1 in both the front and rear axles.

My neighbors Dmax goes on 4,000 mile trips pulling a 35' 5th wheel. Last year he put 20,000 miles on his truck and 16,000 of them miles was with a trailer behind it. 3 years old now and just turned over 70,000 miles. He did 10,000 miles last summer in 25 days, so it gets worked.

Chris

 

[deerefan]

orezok thanks for sharing that filter experience.

Transmission Fluid Change

I have done the above process on the 4L80-e in the MH and in two different 4L60-e's. I never plan to drop another pan and just do this about every 30K miles or at 5 years if 30K miles has not happened.

The cost is about the same for the four of us to eat at McDonald's :thumbsup:

On my wife's 07 civic we just traded, all they did was drain and refill. It took about 4 qts if I remember correctly and cost about 40 bucks at the dealer.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

On my wife's 07 civic we just traded, all they did was drain and refill. It took about 4 qts if I remember correctly and cost about 40 bucks at the dealer.

That is good. Since we do the total change out in the driveway standing up there is no labor $$$ and we wind up with 97% new ATF.

Key is to get ATF in there to replace that which the additives are long since deminished.

 

[brokenot]

That's how the tranny fluid is changed, by flushing

Are you sure about that? Why isn't "flush" or "flushing" the chosen term when the transmission's maintenance intervals are written, and yet when another fluid's maintenance interval is written, the term "flush" or "flushing" is used?

When did transmission flushing and flushing machines come onto the scene? While DIY-ers have been doing their own flushing for decades, when did the devices we see at garages nowadays become popular?

The reason I ask is that transmission fluid changes have been recommended at specific intervals for a whole lot longer than the flushing machines and/or services we see today have been around. So if they used to specify changes, (as in dropping the pan), and continue to specify changes and not flushes when they really mean flushes, well....it really muddies the waters a bit.

And nobody yet has answered the question I asked earlier:

If a flush is indeed the recommended procedure, then why isn't a simple fitting, (or fittings), installed to make it simple?

The other thing I've often wondered is why people post up that dropping the pan only changes "X" percent of the fluid, as if the folks making the recommendations and writing the manuals aren't aware of it.....

 

[crazyal]

The last GM vehicle I owned (actually my GF) was an 04 trailblazer. She had about 65k miles on it when I moved it so I could plow where it was parked. I left it idling to help heat up the exhaust. When I went to back it up no matter if I shifted into F or R is just sat there like it was in N. I checked the fluid and it looked like it was a mixture of mud and rust. That past fall it looked fine. She bought it used with 15k on it but no manual so she didn't know when the fluid changes were due.

That was a lesson learned the hard way and we no longer own it. If GM says change the fluid they want all the fluid changed not just what's in the oil pan. When I flushed the tranny I did it the exact way Diamond Pilot said he does it. Change the filter, fill it up, disconnect the return hose from the cooler and have someone start it up as you hold onto and watch the hose going into a pan (in my case a 5 gallon bucket. Once it looked like about a gallon came out I shut off the motor, filled it up again, and continued flushing until the fluid coming out looks correct.

 

[MikePA]

On my wife's 07 civic we just traded, all they did was drain and refill. It took about 4 qts if I remember correctly and cost about 40 bucks at the dealer.

My 1999 Acura TL (4 speed, no replaceable filter) has similar requirements plus specifically mentions not to do a flush, just a drain and refill.

 

[joe48]

I highly recommend the full flush , especially if its a Chrysler Product. They specified a full flush every 60k in the owners manual on my minivan.
I had it done once at a dealers, then at a shop that is owned by a friend and he is a B-G shop. B-G full flushes and replaces all with their synthetic.
Now before the battle between syn and nonsyn starts, this is my opinion and my success story and I'm sticking to it.
My trans had been flushed twice and at about 170k it started to slip and/or not shift between forward and reverse. So back to the B-G shop, he gave it a really good flush and it took about 2 weeks for it to stop slipping, I traded it in at 255k and it was still working fine. When the used car mgr drove it he couldn't believe a Chrysler minivan had 255k on it and the trans had never been apart.
Oh yeah and this will generate a few comments too, I ran Walmart 10w30 full syn for the whole 255k, changed filters at 7500 and oil at 15k. There wasn't a speck of sludge under the valve cover when I traded it.
So flush it and synthetics.

 

[brokenot]

I highly recommend the full flush , especially if its a Chrysler Product. They specified a full flush every 60k in the owners manual on my minivan.

What year/model is it? I just picked a random '05 mini van from Chrysler's owners manual download link, and it says the same thing other manuals I've looked at say:

"Change" oil at "X" miles

"Change" transmision fluid at "X" miles

"Drain and flush" engine coolant at "X" miles

Here's a link, you can download any owners manual for '04 to present:

My Chrysler: Chrysler Owners Service Manuals - Chrysler Cars, Minivans, SUVs, Convertibles, Crossovers

Not only does it specify flushing for the cooling system only in the maintenance schedule tables, it also says the same thing in the instructions text that precedes the schedule tables.

 

[deerefan]

What year/model is it? I just picked a random '05 mini van from Chrysler's owners manual download link, and it says the same thing other manuals I've looked at say:

"Change" oil at "X" miles

"Change" transmision fluid at "X" miles

"Drain and flush" engine coolant at "X" miles

Here's a link, you can download any owners manual for '04 to present:

My Chrysler: Chrysler Owners Service Manuals - Chrysler Cars, Minivans, SUVs, Convertibles, Crossovers

Not only does it specify flushing for the cooling system only in the maintenance schedule tables, it also says the same thing in the instructions text that precedes the schedule tables.

As long as the contaminants and old fluid are removed and fresh fluid added, does it really matter how? I know of 5 different ways to change engine oil, but they all lead to the same result, which is having fresh, clean oil. I promise you this, if you have tranny problems and you bring it in for a warranty repair and they can tell you dropped the pan and went into the tranny, good luck getting it fixed under warranty. Also, the dealership where I bought my truck does flushes. If it was against manufacturer recommendations, I doubt they would do it. I don't think they want to eat the cost of a new tranny. The owners manual tells you to change the fluid, not how. Flushing and draining both do this.

 

[brokenot]

The owners manual tells you to change the fluid, not how. Flushing and draining both do this.

But flushing isn't recommended, (like lots of folks seem to think it is), or the manuals would say so. Where does this insistence to "interpret" of "figure out" what they mean come from?

I promise you this, if you have tranny problems and you bring it in for a warranty repair and they can tell you dropped the pan and went into the tranny, good luck getting it fixed under warranty.

That's a good one. I promise you this: If you apply your own interpretation willy-nilly to service information that's clearly spelled out in your manuals, you'll have trouble getting warranty coverage long before I will.

Good grief....they tell you to change the fluid. Changing the fluid has meant for decades dropping the pan. E V E R Y B O D Y knows this. It's been common practice. Transmission flushing is fairly new in comparison. Since it's fairly new, it's safe to assume that perhaps some owners would be unaware or unfamiliar with it. So how could they make customers more familiar and/or aware of it? Recommend it, specify it, and call it by name in the manual. In other words, don't leave it up for (mis) interpretation.

If they wanted you to do it differently, you would be told to do it differently. You wouldn't have to read a DIY-ers "how-to" procedure on an internet forum.

 

[tractorboy5500]

Got to think, when flushing a transmission, there are hook ups or quick connects for hooking up the flush machine, and who put them there, the manufactor, so flushing must be how they do it.
I would have them drop the pan change the filter and seal if there is one and clean the magnet if there is one and then have it flushed. That would total change and clean the transmission.

 

[timswi]

Are you sure about that? Why isn't "flush" or "flushing" the chosen term when the transmission's maintenance intervals are written, and yet when another fluid's maintenance interval is written, the term "flush" or "flushing" is used?

When did transmission flushing and flushing machines come onto the scene? While DIY-ers have been doing their own flushing for decades, when did the devices we see at garages nowadays become popular?

The reason I ask is that transmission fluid changes have been recommended at specific intervals for a whole lot longer than the flushing machines and/or services we see today have been around. So if they used to specify changes, (as in dropping the pan), and continue to specify changes and not flushes when they really mean flushes, well....it really muddies the waters a bit.

And nobody yet has answered the question I asked earlier:

If a flush is indeed the recommended procedure, then why isn't a simple fitting, (or fittings), installed to make it simple?

The other thing I've often wondered is why people post up that dropping the pan only changes "X" percent of the fluid, as if the folks making the recommendations and writing the manuals aren't aware of it.....

Don't know what to tell you. Owners manuals just tell you when to do something not how. They are fully expecting you to have it done at the dealer (even though most don't)...I had my Hummer and Sierra's tranny fluids done at the dealer on schedule and they were both flushed.

If the dealer doesn't know how to maintain the warranty, how would the rest of us?

The days of the 350 and 400 turbo are long gone. They would probably last 30K on 20W50 if you tried it..These new precision trannies...Not so much.