Tractor wont start on incline

[Komrade]

I was digging a trench uphill and tractor lost power and won't start, seems like a fuel issue as it turns over, but maybe there is some safety shutoff I am not aware of? I've run into something similar before when tractor drove into a ditch with rear wheels, but it recovered after a bit.
Estimating slope to be around 30%

 

[rbargeron]

There's a small fuel lift pump on the side of the engine, below the injection pump, that might be the issue - with the tractor on level ground the tank is above the engine - the lift pump doesn't have much lifting to do, but if the tractor is sloped backward the fuel may not be getting to the main pump. (more likely to act up when tank level is getting low)

 

[Komrade]

Is there any way to check other than replace? Easy to replace for beginners?
Edit:
Called local equipment company, $160 or so incl bracket, worth a shot.

 

[rbargeron]

Is there any way to check other than replace? Easy to replace for beginners?

Yes and yes - take it off (2 screws) and test it in your hands. Push the button that sticks into the engine, holding a finger in turn over each pipe. One should suck, the other should blow. If they don't there's a failed diaphragm inside (not serviceable like the old ones on chevys were)

Is there any way to check other than replace? Easy to replace for beginners?
Edit:
Called local equipment company, $160 or so incl bracket, worth a shot.

That's nuts. If it fails the finger test, a new one is under $20.

If the fuel tank level is low, try putting in a few gallons - might get it going - open the thumbscrew bleeder valve to bypass any air back to the tank - close it once its running.

 

[hube2]

The first thing I'd do is check and/or replace the fuel filter. Every time I've had an issue with fuel while going up hill the cause was the fuel filter. A lot cheaper and easier to check than assuming the pump is bad without looking at less severe possibilities first.

 

[Komrade]

It was puffing smoke w/o starting earlier on, but after sitting for a day (while charging battery) no smoke is coming out at all.. Will mess with it in the morning when it cools down...

Edit:
Plan to bleed air, test the pump, and probably put a new battery in.
I did add 5 gallons of fuel, it's nearly full, and it was probably around quarter tank at time of the issue.

 

[Komrade]

The first thing I'd do is check and/or replace the fuel filter. Every time I've had an issue with fuel while going up hill the cause was the fuel filter. A lot cheaper and easier to check than assuming the pump is bad without looking at less severe possibilities first.

What's the logical explanation of fuel filter being a problem uphill only?

 

[RustyA]

1/4 tank on angle maybe fuel pickup was out of fuel? Might have to bleed fuel filter if it has the pump style on housing? Might be air in fuel system from starvation?

 

[dirttoys]

What's the logical explanation of fuel filter being a problem uphill only?

Good question, I have seen bowl type separators do this also if they had a goodly quantity of water in them. Filter I would guess it was nearly plugged or highly contaminated and the angle of the dangle precluded fuel flow.

I have also had floating debris in the tank plug the pick up at just the right fuel level or incline. Someone said above to add fuel and see if it help, that is a great idea. I would change the filter before the lift pump.

Best,

ed

 

[hube2]

What's the logical explanation of fuel filter being a problem uphill only?

Going to be honest I have no idea what the logic is. What I know is that I have a steep driveway and in the past I have had a tractor that when the fuel filter was plugged or dirty I could not drive up the hill without it either loosing power of outright dying, but ran fine going downhill or backing up the hill. Both times this happened to me I changed the filter and that corrected the problem. In both cases the filter did not look dirty to me nor did it appear that they had water in them.

Could it be that the fuel pump was weak or not functioning at 100%, again but it ran for years without needing to have the pump replace after the first time it happened.

At any rate its a lot easier and cheaper to change a filter than to do anything else and if my new tractor acted the same way it would be the first thing I'd try because of the experience I've had and the fact that I always have a new filter sitting on a self. Maybe if it does happen I'll have to have the fuel pump pressure tested.

 

[Komrade]

Bled air, shot of Starter fluid. good to go.

 

[Komrade]

Well, celebration was too early. After 90min of hard work lost power and won't stay on. Now on flat surface and half tank of diesel. Filled it up to the top, same thing. Will try fuel filter

 

[BeezFun]

I was digging a trench ...

Your soil looks almost as rocky as mine. You have my condolences.

 

[Komrade]

was digging shale/bedrock later.. and it's next to a river/creek, tons of boulders.
If creek is called "Stoney" it tells you something.

Got 30 mins out of tractor today.. Will pick up the tool (big pliers) to take out the filter later.
Powerwashed the engine compartment for when I'll be dealing with fuel.

 

[Komrade]

changed filter. plenty of fuel flow observed by gravity, as I turned the "off" switch improperly, and scrambed to test all settings to find the true "off" (to stop the flow).. although i don't think this proves anything

only got a few mins out of tractor
can't hold RPMS above 1500.
can't figure out what socket tool one needs to get to the pump nuts. The nuts are partially behind the pump casing.
based on other reading, the fact that tractor works for a while, and with full tank, not sure if pump is an issue.
Just two screws based on earlier input are kinda hard to get to..
Regular socket wrench can't get to it, would require removing stuff in the way.

 

[Komrade]

Notes for self:

Plugged vent in the supply? Tried running it with the fuel cap loose?

Kubota fuel prob

www.haytalk.com

other ideas
* take off filter again and see if there's fuel screen
* blow back tube coming from fuel tank
* blow all fuel tubes
* make sure there are no cracks in fuel tubes (e.g. sucking air instead of fuel)
* run something other than backhoe (e.g. drive/move boulders) and see if tractor has same issues

Note, I Just replaced a hose on backhoe right before these problems started. The tractor has been used pretty regularly this season w/o any issues (other than one time I seem to have lost power when I backed into a ditch), with a couple of straight hours grading, moving mulch, just a few days prior to starting on the ditch.

 

[Komrade]

There is no fuel screen
If tractor is starved of fuel via switch above water separator/filer it sucks up all the fuel, indicating pump works.
The water separator cup fills very quickly once switch is turned on, indicating no obstruction in fuel tank.
I ran it with fuel tank cap cracked, and it didn't help
At this point tractor sputters and shuts off once it warms up even if left on low/idle.

 

[hube2]

So I don't have the same kind of tractor, but I'm always interested in topics like this because it gives me things to look at if I run into similar problems in the future.

So curious I did some reading.

Could you have a faulty fuel shut off solenoid or possibly a problem with the wiring to it? This shows a picture of what it might look like Amazon.com: Mover Parts Fuel Shut Off Solenoid 1A021-60010 1A021-60015 for Kubota V2003 V2203 V2403 D1503 D1703 D1803 L2800 L3130 L3200 L3240 L3400 L3430 Bobcat S150 S160 S175 S185 T190 AL275: Automotive

From what I understand it should only engage to turn off fuel flow when you turn the key off and then should disengage after a few seconds to allow you to start it again. Means that ignition wiring could cause it to engage if there is some type of problem there.

Here's a tread from here about someone else having an issue with it Kubota L3430GST Fuel shut off solenoid clicking on & off

 

[rbargeron]

Something might be interrupting power to your "stop solenoid". On a L3430 the stop solenoid needs 12v power to allow starting.

The actual performance of fuel solenoids has evolved. On older models the solenoid activated to EXTEND and cut the fuel for a few seconds (you can hear it click off a few seconds later, retracting to its rest oposition enabling fuel flow for starting next time).

On newer models it's function is reversed. Its rest position is EXTENDED, pushing the fuel rack to the no-fuel position. On KEY-ON the new type WITHDRAWS, allowing fuel to flow. You need 12v to it to allow fuel into the injection pump.

Purists (old farmers, other fossils like me) preferred it the old way, if you could turn the engine by just turning a jacked up wheel the engine might fire and run (dead batt - no problem). The product liability lawyers renamed that feature a shortcoming - and stamped it out. See post 20 for pics of which is which.

 

[rbargeron]

So I don't have the same kind of tractor, but I'm always interested in topics like this because it gives me things to look at if I run into similar problems in the future.

So curious I did some reading.

Could you have a faulty fuel shut off solenoid or possibly a problem with the wiring to it? This shows a picture of what it might look like Amazon.com: Mover Parts Fuel Shut Off Solenoid 1A021-60010 1A021-60015 for Kubota V2003 V2203 V2403 D1503 D1703 D1803 L2800 L3130 L3200 L3240 L3400 L3430 Bobcat S150 S160 S175 S185 T190 AL275: Automotive

From what I understand it should only engage to turn off fuel flow when you turn the key off and then should disengage after a few seconds to allow you to start it again. Means that ignition wiring could cause it to engage if there is some type of problem there.

Here's a tread from here about someone else having an issue with it Kubota L3430GST Fuel shut off solenoid clicking on & off

The above comment in RED needs some new light on it. There are two versions of the stop solenoid and two ways they work

The function of the "STOP SOLENOID" got reversed around 2003 with intro of L..30 models (and other products).

Until 2002 the stop solenoid acted on key-off to actively cut the fuel for a few seconds to stop the engine. A bit later it RESETS, enabling fuel to flow for starting next time. This arrangement is in use on 149 Kubota models - thru the Lxx10's.

Starting in 2003 the design changed. On 96 models since that time the stop solenoid still acts on key-off to actively cut the fuel to stop the engine BUT IT DOESN'T RESET. With the later solenoid, the key needs to be turned on to actively power it to allow fuel to flow.

Here are the two solenoid versions - Komrade's tractor has the later one - if anything cuts the 12v to it, the fuel stops.