Tractor-Towable LARGE Dump Trailer

RoyJackson · Apr 30, 2002

Have you checked out
www.easternfarmmachinery.com they sell dump trailers from 1 1/2 to 20 tons.

Here's the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.easternfarmmachinery.com/scripts/catalog.pl?F=S&K=Trailer&SC=Y&ST=Y&X=500&V=Brief&ID=04301427446478103207>link to that site</A>.
That link goes directly to the trailers, BTW...

Anonymous Poster · Apr 30, 2002

After reading through these replys I feel lucky I bought my dump trailer here in the mid-west. The prices I read are high compared to what I paid to the manufacturer in Tenn about 6 years ago $2950...+ tax. 6x10x2 with two 3500Lb axils. I use the trailer with a 3/4 ton Chevy 350 auto 4x4---I may be conservative but about 5500lbs is all I feel comfortable with behind the truck. The truck is rated at 8600lbs gvw. I don't pea on any it's just what I bought at the time. The trailer has a 12 volt hydralic dump and works very well as long as I remember to charge the battery-----I suppose I could connect it to the alternator with an isolated wire. The trailer always gets a look at the dump, it is handy as a pocket on a shirt. Cartage is not that much and for safety sake cheep, so I always get bulk loads delivered by the pros. Best to youall.

Mainah · May 1, 2002

I've looked at gray market tractors (McConnel and LandTrac) that have a round trailor light connector (I assume a 6-way) mounted on the rear of the tractor which ought to pass current on to the trailer's electric brakes as it does from a pickup. Wonder if Kubota has something similar?

[A soon to be Kubota 3710 owner...this weekend hopefully

]

fractal · May 2, 2002

Uhh, after showing how little I knew about towing on the safety forum, I checked out the DOT web site. I suspect by "not over highway use" they mean "it ain't DOT approved so don't tow it on public roads".

To summarize what you can find at http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/39342.htm , any trailer having a GVWR of 3000 pounds or more must have brakes on all wheels if you want to tow it on the street. Any trailer having a GVWR of less than 3000 pounds but MORE than 40% of the GVWR of the towing vehicle must also have brakes on all wheels. Thus, if your tow vehicle weight less than about 7500 pounds and you want to tow a 2999 pound trailer ... you need trailer brakes (and brake lights and reflectors and turn signals and .... the list goes on). Surge brakes haven't been legal for years. I can carry more gravel in the bucket of my 2000 pound kubota than I can legally pull on the road in a reasonable trailer without (electric) brakes.

There are some exceptions made for ag equipment but I suspect you would be hard pressed to prove that the gravel you want is involved in the production of food

Of course we all know that what is legal and what you can get away with are two different things.

MJB · May 2, 2002

The trailer light connector is most likely only for powering the trailer lights. You would still need to have an electric brake controller in order to operate the brakes on the trailer. There may be a spare terminal or two in the light connector to allow you to wire the brake connection through the same connector though. John Deere also has an optional trailer light connector available on at least some of its models. I don't know if Kubota does or not. Hope this helps.

Charlie_Iliff · May 2, 2002

Fractal:
I haven't done any research beyond the url you posted, but note that the regulation quoted is the federal standard for commercial vehicles. State licensing standards vary, and you have to look at those, as well. Maryland's requirements for private vehicles are a pretty close match to what you found, as I recall.
I did not see where you found that surge brakes are not legal. In Maryland, I am advised by a trailer dealer that they will become illegal soon for commercial vehicles, for the reason that the operator can not activate them from the driver's seat. They are available on new trailers, however, and I built a boat trailer a few years ago using them.
Hydraulic surge brakes are perfect for use with a tractor, because they do not require any activator or wire. I doubt many electric activators would work well at tractor speeds. Electric brakes require adjustment of the activator for trailer load and conditions. Surge brakes are self regulating. Their greatest advantage is in downhill turning situations, where they automatically reduce or eliminate potential jacknife loads where electric brakes might not be activated at all.
That being said, of course, surge brakes are not well understood in the industry, or among the regulators, and are fairly rare these days.

Mainah · May 2, 2002

MJB....I think you are right about the spare terminals. I used to frig with those flat, 4-connector trailor hitches brushing the contacts and dowsing them with WD-40 to make them work for my boat and utility trailors. A wise old colleague told me to switch to the round, 6-way connectors about 5 years back. The truck-mounted socket has a weather cover that is spring loaded to stay shut. Since using them I've never had a problem with getting trailor lights to work. With Maine's tough winters that says something.
Anyway, there is a spare terminal in the plug marked, if I remember, for the electric brake. Since I'll be buying an 18' dual axle trailer with the tractor that has electric brakes I'm hoping the dealer will be willing to hook things up on the trailer end for me. Thanks for your input...and I'll be sure to ask the 'bota dealer about the socket for the tractor when I see him tomorrow. Thanks for your input...

rozett · May 2, 2002

yea, the round connector is now the industry standard and is know as the RV connector. Here's a site with the pin-out information. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.marksrv.com/wiring.htm>http://www.marksrv.com/wiring.htm</A>

bgott · May 3, 2002

Surge brakes are installed on every rental trailer that requires brakes. If you don't believe me, stop by a U-Haul lot and take a look.

fractal · May 3, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

Surge brakes are installed on every rental trailer that requires brakes. If you don't believe me, stop by a U-Haul lot and take a look.

<hr></blockquote>

I do believe you. Just that while at the dot site I read http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/393reg.htm which says:
<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

§393.48 Brakes To Be Operative

Question 1: Do surge brakes comply with §393.48?

Guidance: No. Section 393.48 requires that brakes be operable at all times. Generally, surge brakes are only operative when the vehicle is moving in the forward direction and as such do not comply with §393.48 (see question number 1 in §393.49).

<hr></blockquote>

Dunno if United States Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration Regulatory Guidelines apply to where you live, but here in overregulated california, I am pretty sure they do.

Charlie_Iliff · May 3, 2002

Fractal:
I think those are the federal regs for commercial motor carriers, which don't necessarily apply to non commercial, non-interstate carriers. They may be adopted by states, however, for private vehicles.
The part about operating all the time is what may be driving the pending regulation in Maryland - but applicable for commercially licensed vehicles only. I suppose they are worried about not being able to put on the brakes while stopped or while backing up. Most of the risk with a trailer, however, is the trailer overrunning/jacknifig the tow vehicle, which surge brakes handle better than electric. I've not seen anything suggesting that surge brakes are or will be prohibited on private trailers or rental trailers.

Darren · May 3, 2002

Charlie, Maryland interprets commercial to mean any vehicle or vehicle trailer combination that exceeds 10,000 lbs. I've been to court twice on this issue. Case dismissed each time. The true definition according to the feds is that to be considered commercial not only must the weight requirements be met but the vehicle must be used in furtherance of a business.

Maryland troopers and their inspectors play more than a few games with the "furtherance of a business" requirement. I had one trooper admit to me that they'd stopped a guy with an 18 wheeler hauling mules. The man and his family went out West each year to trail ride, etc. The truck and trailer was owned by him personally but because no business was involved other than the rquirement to have a CDL, nothing else applied. The trooper said, "We couldn't do a thing with him."

Supposedly that was the only thing the guy used the truck for.

Charlie_Iliff · May 3, 2002

Darren:
It doesn't surprise me that there is something short of exact consistency in application of the inspection regulations. What also is interesting is that there can apparently be quite a disparity between regs for commercial stuff and for private. If your objective is taxation, that makes sense. For safety, it doesn't. (That is not to say I concede that either federal or state regulators necessarily have sufficient expertise to judge what is safer. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.)
My only point in the earlier threads was that surge trailer brakes are not only not illegal, but in a number of ways are safer and easier to work with than electric trailer brakes.

Mainah · May 3, 2002

Good to know the round connector is standard now.
I checked at my Kubota dealer today and they can hook up a module and round socket on tractors to run the electric brakes on the trailer and/or the trailer lights. Fellow I spoke with said it worked slick as snot on a rubber boot...but can take 2-3 hours to install...total cost he estimated was $235...sounds a little dear, but if it keeps the tail from wagging the dog....anyway, something to think about.

Darren · May 3, 2002

Which round socket is that. Is it the socket with flat blades (RV) or is it the standard socket with round pins?

caddison · May 3, 2002

Depending on the size of your tractor be very careful about towing heavy loads that exceed the weight of your tractor. If you happen to encounter an area that has loose gravel and a stop is necessary you may find yourself underneath or between the tractor and trailer.

bgott · May 4, 2002

I know what you mean about California. I'm from CA. It's a good place to be FROM. I don't think U-Haul type rental trailers are considered commercial. I remember renting one of U-Haul's car haulers and it had a sticker stating that it was rated for a 3500 pound car max. I thought it was a joke at the time, that was one heavy duty trailer. I immediately shoehorned a 6000 pound truck on it and went merrily on my way, the trailer showed no sign of being overloaded. Mind you, this was one of the older, heavy duty, six lug axle equipped trailers, not one of the light weight trailers I see on their lots now. I think they rated it that way to keep the gross rating under 5000 pounds for legal purposes.

Mainah · May 4, 2002

Darren,
From what little I know, it's the round plug not the flat one. The system of plugs I got was from VIP auto center. They make 6, 7 and I think 8 contact pins within the plug. I went with the 6-way set-up. Has marked pins for L+R turn signals, brake/parking lights, ground, and one marked 'B' which I assume is for electric brakes.
Does anyone know what I need to do to my F-150 to make it run the trailer's electric brakes? Someone told me I need some sort of brake module to control the trailer's brakes...wonder how much THAT will cost me LOL.

Charlie_Iliff · May 4, 2002

Jim:
"wonder how much THAT will cost me LOL."

$100 to $175 plus installation.
Search on trailer brakes, and you'll see a lot of discussion of controllers. Consensus seems to be Tekonsha is generally good, Jordan Ultima perhaps the best.
For your truck harness, there is generally a plug in pigtail with a ground wire to go to a chassis lug. Make sure you know where that ground wire is connected to the truck chassis. Then, if you get a malfunction of trailer lights or brakes, clean that connection first. A large percentage of trailer light problems are the tow vehicle ground connection. Some clever trailer shops make a mint just taking that apart, cleaning it and putting it back together. Diagnosis and repair $250.

Bird · May 4, 2002

Jim, I thought the 6-way plugs were (in no particular order):

1. Left turn signal
2. Right turn signal
(those same two are also the brake lights)
3. Tail lights
4. Ground
5. Battery (travel trailers have their own battery and this is a charge line to re-charge that battery while towing).
6. Brakes

The connectors with 7 pins usually include backup lights (at least on the ones I've used).

And, yes, you need a "brake controller" on the truck; usually mounted on the lower edge of the dash and may be on either side of the steering column. There are some cheap ones, but expect to pay about $70 (plus or minus $10), plus tax and installation unless you do the installation yourself.