Tractor placement on trailer

[raeuber]

I am shopping for a dual axle equipment trailer for tractor, but I am unsure what length to get. Obviously it has to fit the whole thing, but what about the placement of the tractor on the trailer? Once it's loaded and up against the headache rack, where is the bulk of the weight supposed to end up? Where should the rear wheel sit compared to the two axles on the trailer? Is there a rule of thumb that I can apply while shopping short of bringing my tractor along?
Maybe somebody has the same tractor and tell me what trailer you are using.

 

[RickB]

Rule of thumb is to have sufficient trailer length so you can place the load in such a manner that the trailer tongue weight is acceptable. Too much tongue weight is nearly as bad as not enough. Sizing the trailer so the load can't be moved fore & aft to optimize tongue weight is a critical mistake.

 

[raeuber]

Rule of thumb is to have sufficient trailer length so you can place the load in such a manner that the trailer tongue weight is acceptable. Too much tongue weight is nearly as bad as not enough. Sizing the trailer so the load can't be moved fore & aft to optimize tongue weight is a critical mistake.

So you do not want the tractor to "stop" at the front of the trailer? Isn't that what the front bar is for?

 

[Rustyiron]

If this is your 1st trlr, you'll soon discover how many other jobs you'll have for it! I'd get as long a trailer that is; in your budget - your tow vehicle can handle - will maneuver for your use. Placement of your tractor is not necessary against any front structure the trlr. may have, that will be determined by positioning your tractor (or any load) for proper tongue wt.

 

[AVIVIII]

While it may be necessary to have the tractor up against the headboard, it is not a requirement. It is more important to have the trailer loaded correctly regardless of that the cargo is. Having the CG of the tractor over the axels is a good start. Loading too far forward will increase tongue weight (depending on what you are towing with, normal pick-up tongue weight limits are around 500lbs) and may cause the trailer to tow funny including excess sway. Loading too far aft will produce a negative tongue weight which is even worse and is very dangerous.

You will inevitably want to put more things than just your tractor on there too, whether you are bringing implements with you, moving your friends truck or going on a lumber run, if you are not sure what size to get, go with the bigger one.

Weight will also be a deciding factor. What is the tow vehicle? Make sure the trailer GVWR is enough to carry your tractor and the weight of the trailer. Make sure the combined weight of the tractor and trailer (and everything else) are within the GCVWR of the tow vehicle. You also may need a weight distributing hitch. A longer trailer may have a higher tare weight that could put you over your towing capabilities.

 

[RickB]

So you do not want the tractor to "stop" at the front of the trailer? Isn't that what the front bar is for?

Hardly.

 

[AVIVIII]

So I did some searching...

I found data on the tractor, but not the Loader or the backhoe, so I'm going to assume those numbers...

Tractor = 4300 lbs
Loader ~ 800 lbs
Backhoe ~1500 lbs

Total payload ~ 6600 lbs

You would probably look for an 18' or 20' 10,000# GVWR trailer. Leep in mind that some of that 10000 lbs is going to be the weight of the trailer

 

[raeuber]

So I did some searching...

I found data on the tractor, but not the Loader or the backhoe, so I'm going to assume those numbers...

Tractor = 4300 lbs
Loader ~ 800 lbs
Backhoe ~1500 lbs

Total payload ~ 6600 lbs

You would probably look for an 18' or 20' 10,000# GVWR trailer. Leep in mind that some of that 10000 lbs is going to be the weight of the trailer

Thanks for the numbers. I was looking at a 20' and it weighs in at 2750lbs, so I think a 10k is too close for comfort. I may go with a 12k or even a 14k.
But with the comments above I may have to revisit the length now as well. Good thing I asked

 

[Soundguy]

So you do not want the tractor to "stop" at the front of the trailer? Isn't that what the front bar is for?

not specifically. you load it so you get correct tounge weight as rick specified.. don't want the front end of th truck to be light.. or the rear end unweighted. both can/will happen with incorrect tounge weight..

 

[MissouriSprayer]

A simple way to balance the load is to measure bumper height with empty trailer then move tractor forward or back to achieve the same height. Its not perfect but is not bad. Also play with loading backwards and forwards and look for best fit. Then on first road trip pay attention to any sway at highway speed and if you sway, stop and adjust front or back.

 

[AVIVIII]

Thanks for the numbers. I was looking at a 20' and it weighs in at 2750lbs, so I think a 10k is too close for comfort. I may go with a 12k or even a 14k.
But with the comments above I may have to revisit the length now as well. Good thing I asked

What is your tow vehicle?

For reference, my 06 Chevy 2500HD 6.0L can only tow 10,000lbs, which means the trailer can not have a higher GVWR than 10,000lbs.

If you have a 1 ton or a diesel, it goes up, but find that number and keep it in mind.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that the Max trailering weight is derived from the GCVWR, so in my case, I can tow 10,000 lbs, but once you combine that with the truck weight, it leaves room for the driver, a very small amount of cargo and a tank full of fuel. You can't max out your trailering capacity, take 6 people in the crew cab and a load of gravel in the pick-up bed.

 

[jeffsw6]

Thanks for the numbers. I was looking at a 20' and it weighs in at 2750lbs, so I think a 10k is too close for comfort. I may go with a 12k or even a 14k.

What kind of trucks do you have available to tow it? You are getting into the weight range where it isn't very easy to make the choice between conventional bumper pull and gooseneck.

 

[raeuber]

What is your tow vehicle?

For reference, my 06 Chevy 2500HD 6.0L can only tow 10,000lbs, which means the trailer can not have a higher GVWR than 10,000lbs.

If you have a 1 ton or a diesel, it goes up, but find that number and keep it in mind.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that the Max trailering weight is derived from the GCVWR, so in my case, I can tow 10,000 lbs, but once you combine that with the truck weight, it leaves room for the driver, a very small amount of cargo and a tank full of fuel. You can't max out your trailering capacity, take 6 people in the crew cab and a load of gravel in the pick-up bed.

I tow with a Chevy 3500 dually Duramax. This should be able to do the 14k, but now you guys got me thinking.

 

[AVIVIII]

I tow with a Chevy 3500 dually Duramax. This should be able to do the 14k, but now you guys got me thinking.

If memory serves me right, you can do 12,000 conventional and 15,000 gooseneck. If you have the Allison tranny, I think it goes up to the 16,500 area.

 

[whodat526]

i would get a 24ft 14k gooseneck trailer and be done the you can drive the tractor all the way to the front of the trailer if thats what you wont to do with little to no problem and you truck will handle it with no trouble
i pull a 32ft dual tandem with a 2500 hd chevy and have hauled three tractors at one time a ford 1215 a ford 4600 and a ford 5900 with no problem

 

[s219]

I needed all of a 16' deck (that's not counting any dovetail) to properly position my tractor for the right tongue weight. With tractor only, the rear tractor wheels are a little ahead of the rear trailer wheel for the right balance. With a heavy rear implement, I'm almost all the way forward for balance. If I had a bigger tractor or heavier rear implements, no doubt I'd need 18-20 feet of flat deck.

 

[AVIVIII]

i would get a 24ft 14k gooseneck trailer and be done the you can drive the tractor all the way to the front of the trailer if thats what you wont to do with little to no problem and you truck will handle it with no trouble
i pull a 32ft dual tandem with a 2500 hd chevy and have hauled three tractors at one time a ford 1215 a ford 4600 and a ford 5900 with no problem

While I don't doubt that you have done that, it raises an important issue.

Despite the fact that the truck could do that, doesn't mean that it was safe or legal. You probably had 13,000+ lbs on that trailer, that itself probably weighed 4000 lbs. On a late model truck, you may have been close-ish to the numbers, but no way were you legal. Safety is another issue. While it was without incident, that may not always be the case.

I have a good friend that went to prison on manslaughter charges for an accident that wasn't his fault. He was charged because the 2 pallets of concrete and the bobcat on his trailer put him almost 4,000lbs over what the truck and trailer was rated for when he t-boned a woman that blew through her red light.

Sure, we have all overloaded a trailer or put too much in the back of a pick-up, but theres no reason for you not to make the right choice here.

 

[Diamondpilot]

You have plenty of truck. I would measure your tractor with its longest implement and FEL down and add 3 feet.

Chris

 

[Gary Fowler]

Well guys it is really easy here to overload someones wallet if not his truck. Talking about a 32 foot gooseneck to put a 6500 load is a little outrageous even for TBN folks. At most for a TLB of that size, a 12K GVW 20 foot trailer will be sufficient and leave room to put on an implement or two in front or rear depending on balance.
The trailer is not going to go 3000 even if you get a heavy carhauler so with a 6500# load, that still leave the OP with 2500# of loadable weight assuming proper balance and towing capacity. He may have to experiment with loading the TLB going forward or backward to get it placed correctly so he gets most of the weight on the trailer and not on his truck.
You would want to squat your bumper a bit but not excessively. I would say that a good indication would be to put a couple of 250 guys on the bumper and measure the bumper to ground deflection. You would want it to be about that amount but for sure not less than the first 250 guy. You trailer will put some weight on it when you hook it up and each one will vary depending on wheel placement on the trailer. Some trailer mfgs. put the far to the rear while others move them further forward.

 

[Soundguy]

While I don't doubt that you have done that, it raises an important issue.

Despite the fact that the truck could do that, doesn't mean that it was safe or legal. You probably had 13,000+ lbs on that trailer, that itself probably weighed 4000 lbs. On a late model truck, you may have been close-ish to the numbers, but no way were you legal. Safety is another issue. While it was without incident, that may not always be the case.

I have a good friend that went to prison on manslaughter charges for an accident that wasn't his fault. He was charged because the 2 pallets of concrete and the bobcat on his trailer put him almost 4,000lbs over what the truck and trailer was rated for when he t-boned a woman that blew through her red light.

Sure, we have all overloaded a trailer or put too much in the back of a pick-up, but theres no reason for you not to make the right choice here.

remember.. pin weight can be unloaded onto the truck from the trailer giving you some play.

a lightweight gn in that size range could easilly hit as low as 3400$, just browsing online. depending ont he exact machines he was hauling.. he may have been MORE than legal..

all that said.. i much prefer hauling GN nowadays vs bumper pull. so much so that I hate going bumper pull anymore...

soundguy