Toyota steps up

[crazyal]

I finally got around to bring my 2000 Tundra to the dealer for the frame inspection. I knew the cross member that holds the spare tire on was weak but the frame was strong. A couple of years ago I pulled the bed and power washed off all the scaly rust and then used some commercial rust inhibitor I had left over from a company I worked at that did bridge painting. Since then the frame had surface rust but when I ultrasonically checked the thickness of the steel it was still almost as thick as the sections of the frame with no rust (several thous thinner).

I never drive the truck unless I need a truck because of gas prices. So when a coworker needed to borrow a couple of 24' staging planks I have I figured I could kill two birds. While at his house dropping off the planks we got to talking about it and he showed me his 99 GMC cubevan he uses for pulling his rally car. That frame was falling apart and it's currently unsafe to drive. The winters up here are real hard on vehicles.

Just talked to the dealer and they are going to replace the frame. It sounds like it comes with new springs and rear axle along with new lower control arms and bushings. I have to call back next week for all the details but things look good. You can say what you want about Toyota but I pass trucks of all brands of about the same age all the time parked in people's yards around here with blocks under the frame because they split in half.

Since I only put 1000 to 2000 miles a year (either during snow storms or when I need a bed or to pull something) on the truck if I have the option of selling it back or having them fix it I'll probably just have it fixed and get another 10 to 15 years out of it. I had pretty much decided that it's life was going to be like the other thousands of trucks around here, half ***** weld job and an old snow plow sitting waiting until winter. Whether they were forced to or not I'm glad to see Toyota stepping up to the plate.

 

[Rustyiron]

It's nice to hear that they are standing behind their product. It sounds like your frame was ok from your post, I guess that their inspection revealed otherwise? and considering all of the other problems that they have had lately, (with recals) weather real or not (runaway throttle) like you said they "stepped up". I have always wanted a toyota p.u. but would like the old 22r 4 banger but I think that motor/truck has not been made for quite a while. What does your truck have in it engine wise and whats the real mpg?

 

[crazyal]

I've got the 4.7 v8. I've been getting about 15mpg but it needs a new O2 sensor and a tune up, not driving it often makes doing the routine things much more difficult.

The 22r/re was a good engine for their small trucks. It would run forever.

 

[Dmace]

Nice to see Toyota still stepping up, definitely makes the company look better overall. :thumbsup:

 

[RobertN]

As much as I am pro-American/non-import foreign owned company dislike, the Toy 22R, was one of the best motors made. You could thrash it, and it would keep going. Maybe because it was not real powerful, there was not much to break? Whatever, that was a solid motor.

The 22r/re was a good engine for their small trucks. It would run forever.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I had a 86 Toyota with the 22R. 168,000 miles on it when I traded it in. Only thing ever replace other than normal wear items such as hoses, belts, fluids, brakes, ect was the $20 slave cylinder.

Great little truck and motor combo. That thing would pull my 17' 3,500# boat as well as my 4.3L S-10 Blazer.



Chris

 

[Carl_NH]

Crazyal,

Just a follow up on your frame replacement. How did it go and what did they end up replacing and what was your out of pocket?

Our 2000 tundra 4WD -V8 just failed the inspection yesterday and they have ordered the frame. Also rear axle is really looking bad with 1/8" rust flakes and cant even access the fill port anymore..

We have 118K on it and I have been waiting for them to fail the frame before putting any major $ into it, but now will do shocks, brakes, exhaust, and manifolds (right one is leaking) at my cost since there is no point in putting 11 yr old parts back on.

How did yours come out and what did they cover and not cover as part of the frame replacement?

Thanks

Carl

 

[LBrown59]

A guy I know came up smelling like roses on the defective Toyota frame deal.
Toyota took his old defective truck and 250 bucks and gave him a brand new truck for it.
This after him having driven the old truck for a year or 2 and putting several miles on it.
How could anybody pass up a deal like that?

 

[Carl_NH]

LE Brown,

Toyota bought the Tacoma's with a similar issue for 150% of the retail value. The Tundra's is not a buy out (unless its a very special case) they either do the CRC coating if its a bad rust situation or a frame replacement if the frame has perforations.

I am looking specifically for crazyal feedback on his situtation and anyone else that has had thieir frame replaced - it seems dealers have different policies on the replacement parts and labor costs to install.

Carl

 

[crazyal]

it's kind of a two part process. The do a detailed inspection of everything that should be replaced. My truck needed some things, the rear leaf springs both had broken leafs, a valve for adjusting the power steering force was broke, etc. They made note of all of it and then wrote up an estimate to fix everything. They even had the timing belt change on the list. Then we went over each one on the list.

I had a bad O2 sensor (the heater in it died years ago) so I had them replace that. One of the two rubber boots on the steering rack was going bad, I had them replace both since they have to do an alignment after the frame swap. There was a bad cab mount, I heard it making noise so I knew something was wrong and since it needed to be done before you put the cab on the frame I had them do it. There were a few other odds and ends.

I ended up writing a check to the dealer for just over $800. I got the impression that they may have offered me a good deal towards a trade-in but since the Tundra is a second vehicle I really couldn't justify it. I've heard of dealers just charging you for parts and no labor for the extra stuff but mine didn't do that. I know the head of the parts department pretty good so he gives me bodyshop prices so I got 25% off retail.

My rear axle is pretty rusty too but I don't think it's an issue. The frame comes with a new rear brake proportional valve (the think connected to the other end of the rod that connects to the axle). I have thought of picking up a needle scaling gun from Harbor Freight, removing as much rust and scale as I can and painting the rear axle.

Since having the work done I have bought new leaf springs ($550), Replaced the timing belt and water pump ($200), replaced the rotors, calipers, brakes in the front, and the wheel cylinders in the back ($400), and while doing the timing belt I found the front fan had a broken blade ($100). So overall I probably put a little over $2k into the truck but it's like a new truck.

I figure if it made it 10 years driving daily in the winter then it should make it at least another 10 now with only occasional use.

 

[PapaPerk]

Toyota rocks

 

[Carl_NH]

Crazyal,

Thanks for your response - we are in a similar situation - we drive this maybe 8-10K per year and it seems when it hit 90K in early 2009 we did several things - timing belt, water pump, and new tires. Then mid summer 2009 my wife was driving home she called me (I was out of town) and she said the steering is hard and its making a noise.. told her to park it asap..

Sure enough the steering rack had rusted through around the rubber mount. Called Toyota as this was about the time the rust recall started but they said normal maintenance also wanted $1500+ for the repair. Didn't make me real happy but I got a reman unit and total installed was $1100..

I have reviewed other forums and it seems $600-800 is about the going rate for the "other" items not covered and related labor costs for the frame replacement. I have purchased new left side Cat pipe and both manifolds, and rear muffler - had done Y pipe last year so will have an almost new exhaust. Also bought front and rear brake parts rotors, and shocks and struts, so should be nearly new underneath.

The concern I have is the Asst Service Mgr quoted labor of $300 each to replace manifolds and $200 per axle labor for brakes, and $150 for labor for front struts! Total $1150.. This I believe or hope is the "flat rate" as if they did this w/o the frame job. From what I have read it might take an hour to R&R the manifolds, and maybe 1-1.5 hr. to do the struts when doing the frame.

This is before any other "added items" needing replacement so it seems I need to have a discussion with them before it goes under the knife to clear this up as it seems like they might be gouging a bit..

You also bought parts from them and I know they make a hefty profit on these so in the case where I supply the parts they gouge on labor?

Thanks again,

Carl

 

[crazyal]

I had a leak at the manifolds, at least they said that's where the leak was. I ended up replacing the plugs myself after the frame replacement and all the old ones were slightly loose. I guess 127k is a little too much for platinum plugs. Once I installed the new ones it sounded much better and I was able to sail through the state inspection.

I think I would talk to the dealer. There's no reason why they would charge you much in labor since they have to pull the motor so getting at them is real easy and quick. If they aren't willing to work with you then I would maybe call another and ask them.

A coworker just got a quote on doing the timing belt and water pump, $750 for labor plus parts. I think the dealers are really padding up the labor or the labor rate has gone through the roof.

 

[Carl_NH]

Thanks Crazyal,

I replaced the plugs after the timing belt / water pump replacement about 92K and with platinum as well - they were tight but glad you found your "leak" the easy way. My right manifold "ticks" for about 2 min when cold then is quiet as a mouse. It has passed inspection as when I pull into the garage its quiet - been using the same garage for years so they know me.. They also did timing belt and pump for 4 hrs flat rate $84 plus a few odds and ends so $400 for the labor I supplied the parts $250 for belt, pulleys and pump.

I plan to install my front pads and rotors before it goes in for the frame and maybe back ones too if I get time.

I will be calling them this week to discuss the costs rather than wait to the day of surgery and there are fewer options.. Then when I take it in i intend do a pre frame walkthrough inspection and road test with them to validate all is functioning, no leaks, AC works. Then the same after the replacement - they have done about 100 Tundras so they should have this process down I would think by now.

Thanks again,

Carl

 

[sizzami]

meanwhile ford keeps on ignoring the flying spark plugs on my f-250

 

[crazyal]

Over all it's a great deal. I have my own 2 post car lift so I can inspect everything under the truck. The only two things that are rusty are the driveshaft and the rear axle housing. They give you a 'fake' slip showing they did almost $10k worth of work.

 

[Carl_NH]

Crazyal,

Just picked up my "new" 2000 Tundra from Hurlbert Toyota in Epping NH. Was in for the frame replacement for a week and had a loaner SUV.

As mentioned I bouhgt a lot of new parts, Struts, Shocks, L & R Manifolds, left Catayltic and pipe assy, center and rear muffler, (only part not replaced on the exhaust was the right CAT)

Also, had them replace front rotors, calipers (leaking) and pads, and rear shoes, resurface drums and new e-brake cable and tow hitch assembly. They also replaced parts like battery terminal, all new brake lines front and rear as part of the frame replacement.

I supplied most of the parts and they also did the alignment and since there was a slight shimmy they balanced the tires all around.

They even detailed the truck in and out! Now it runs and drives like a new one! Overall spent $1800 on parts and $1100 on labor all done. So I am very happy with the end result.

Carl

 

[CHDinCT]

So Toyota is now doing buy outs/frame replacements on the older Tundra's? First I've read of it. Had my '99 Tacoma condemned May '10. Killed me to see that truck go to the crusher as it was otherwise perfect inside and out. 116K on it and loads of life left in it. Only issue I had with it was that it had a vibration at 60 mph and up that we could never cure with new or re-balanced tires. Anyway, no mention of them doing a frame replacement back then, but I'm not surprised given what it was costing them to buyout all those tacos at 150% of blue book value.

 

[slowzuki]

And for me and every other owner of a 2003 or early 2004 Toyota Matrix with a 5 speed, when the transmission output bearing goes at between 50,000 and 100,000 miles, you'd better hope you racked the miles up and still had warrantee. No help if you're 1 mile or 1 day over. I had the service manager tell me to my face he'd never heard of the problem while he had two Matrix's with transmissions out being rebuilt at the local shop at the moment I was standing there.

I don't know a single one that has made it over 120,000 miles without this failure.

If you ignore the noise it makes, the transmission eventually locks ups including the front tires and destroys the transmission case.

 

[D33r3 6r33N]

I had a Tacoma '98 with the rust issue. The driver's rear was rusted clear through right before the leaf spring. I took it to dealer who beat a hole in the frame with a hammer who told me that Toyota would by it back.
I got a call a few days later from my regional Toyota rep. who told me they wouldn't buy it back because it had a salvage title. It really burned me up because Toyota says that the frame issue is not a safety issue is why they wouldn't do anything with it.
So, I guess if you are driving down the highway at 65 and your truck frame snaps in half you should be just fine because the cause of the accident is a not safety problem.