Towing 14K trailer

[Duffster]

No it does not. In most states, except CA and maybe NY, CDL range is a GCWR of 26,001 lbs or more provided the trailer is 10,001 lbs or more.

His truck & trailer does not have a GCWR of 26,001 lbs or more. Therefore, he is not required to have a CDL.

Even New York took care of this a few years ago and got inline with the Feds. Now just for California.

He won't be fine until he reads his owners manual and checks his truck's TT capacity. My gues is a max of 10,000 off the bumper. I'd be he is well in excess of his trucks TT capacity IF the trailer is a fully loaded 14K trailer. O/P says trailer isn't fully loaded, but the last PA State cop I talked to said it is illegal to pull a trailer beyond your TT capacity, even if it is empty.

Your state may say differently.

You don't need to necessarily "look for a 1-ton". You need to do your homework and look for a truck that is rated to pull 14K off the bumper. Most SRW 1-tons are not rated to pull 14K off the bumper, especially older ones. In fact, a lot of DRW 1-tons are not rated to pull 14K off the bumper. My SRW 1-ton is rated to pull 12K off the bumper and it's an '07 diesel.

My suggestion would be to investigate if your current truck could do a 14K 5th wheel and if so, switch to a 5th wheel trailer. That would be cheaper than swithcing trucks. If it won't then try a 5th wheel trailer and an older SRW 1-ton or dually if money is tight.

If money not a problem, buy a newer duallie and keep your trailer. Just make sure that dually can pull 14K off bumper. Many can't!

"In my state" the friendly inspectors at the local wiegh station are not concerned with GCWR. They say it isn't a legal rating since it isn't printed on the tag on the door jamb.

I would agree that a GN in this weight range is better than a BP

 

[Duffster]

As for Commercial license, several states require it if the truck has a GVWR of over 10K.

Which states other than CA?

 

[wkpoor]

No reason I know of why you legally couldn't have a trailer maker derate a trailer at the factory. Just would have to be done before it's titled. But then you would be stuck with that rating for the rest of the trailer's life. And going over that but still under what it normally would be rated for could be a problem if the guy with the scales showed up.

I know for a fact in the state of Ohio a trailer is only titled if it weighs more than 3999lbs. So the fab shops build around that for the most part even going as far as too weigh them with out ramps if they are close. Then you either tag it from homebuilt or they give you a certificate of origin.
A friend of mine has a business and pulls a 14K BP behind a 3/4t Dodge. He has been pulled over a couple of times by DOT and all they have looked at is how the load is secured and how he is hitched up. Nary a question about it that too much trailer for the truck.

 

[Builder]

In order for him to tow on the hitch legally, he's going to need a 4500/F-450series truck. Both of which will put him into the 26K GCWR. Most 3500s are factory rated at 12K max on a bumper hitch. As for Commercial license, several states require it if the truck has a GVWR of over 10K. And DOT numbers. Florida says you must if you are greater than 18K and Intrastate. Once the DOT guy stops you for one thing, they have been known to check all the specs. Not having a truck rated for the hitch load will get the trailer out of service until someone shows up with a properly rated truck. As for the gooseneck or 5th wheel, you're right on him being able to do it with a properly geared 3500, but he'd have to see what the factory rated his current truck at and bet it wouldn't be.

Never heard that before. We aren't required to have a commercial license until 26,001 or more.

Don, you don't need a 450 to pull a 12K bumper pull trailer and I'm about the most conservative trailer towing guy out there.


I pull a 12K trailer behind my 3500 SRW and have been pulled over several times. Everything complies. I even had my MVCE buddy check over my entire rig-asked him to find things wrong, he found nothing. I am not required to have a DOT # because all my business is carried on in the Commonwealth of PA.

A DOT # is no big deal and does not mean the driver is subjected to being required to have a CDL.

 

[radman1]

In my state, farm pickups are liscened for 13 tons. I can have a combined weight of 13 tons with truck and trailer, if both the truck and trailer have farm plates. However, a trailer with a farm plate can only be pulled by a truck with farm plates unless I have the trailer double plated which would allow use by a nonfarm truck. No way is my truck rated by the manufacture for 13 tons of weight but that is how it is and legal.

 

[FlaDon]

Which states other than CA?

Conneticut for one. Mass is another that says 10K+1 vehicle equals a commercial vehicle except for certain exemptions. Most of the new states are from Jan, 2009 rule changes due to Feds cracking down on states that have had many large vehicle accidents. Mass regs that define CMV.If your state defines it as a commercial vehicle and you use it for business purposes you can bet the blue light guy will expect to see a CDL. The Fed CDL laws are the minimum that the states are required to follow. They can go stricter on their drivers. Not sure but I think Montana may also have lower requirements for when a CDL is required.

 

[Duffster]

Conneticut for one. Mass is another that says 10K+1 vehicle equals a commercial vehicle except for certain exemptions. Most of the new states are from Jan, 2009 rule changes due to Feds cracking down on states that have had many large vehicle accidents. Mass regs that define CMV.If your state defines it as a commercial vehicle and you use it for business purposes you can bet the blue light guy will expect to see a CDL. The Fed CDL laws are the minimum that the states are required to follow. They can go stricter on their drivers. Not sure but I think Montana may also have lower requirements for when a CDL is required.

Don, did you even read your own link that you posted? It doesn't say anything about needing a CDL, it is about new inspection requirements.

Here is the book for Conneticut (Page 11/ section 1.1)

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/lib/dmv/20/29/comdr.pdf

Here is the book for Mass ( Page 5/ Section 1)

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/cdlmanual/CDL_Manual_Part_1.pdf

Here is the book for Montana (page 2)

http://www.doj.mt.gov/driving/forms/25-0300.pdf


This will make it a little easier

I realize it says Maine but it is the same for most of us

 

[Hematite]

This is why when I ordered the trailer for my tractor and accessories, which is under 6000 lbs, I made sure it was rated for 9990lbs which eliminates all the over 10K issues.

 

[kevinj]

Don, did you even read your own link that you posted? It doesn't say anything about needing a CDL, it is about new inspection requirements.

Here is the book for Conneticut (Page 11/ section 1.1)

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/lib/dmv/20/29/comdr.pdf

Here is the book for Mass ( Page 5/ Section 1)

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/cdlmanual/CDL_Manual_Part_1.pdf

Here is the book for Montana (page 2)

http://www.doj.mt.gov/driving/forms/25-0300.pdf


This will make it a little easier

I realize it says Maine but it is the same for most of us

We have the same chart in Michigan. There is also an exclusion section that states for personal use only a CDL is NOT REQUIRED!! One need to determine if the need is personal or bussiness then apply the proper section of law.

Of course anyone should follow proper tie down and load capacities.

 

[Duffster]

This is why when I ordered the trailer for my tractor and accessories, which is under 6000 lbs, I made sure it was rated for 9990lbs which eliminates all the over 10K issues.

Could you explain such issues?

IMO comments like this just continue to confuse people

 

[Hematite]

Duffster:

Whether the information that I've heard is correct or not, when the trailer GVWR goes to 10K or over, there are completely different standards/ regulations applied to the TV and cargo. I was told by a number of supposedly knowledgeable people that to keep things "simple", that it's desirable to use a trailer under 10K GVWR if the load can be safely towed with it. As far as I know those are correct statements.

I'm also using a 1/2 ton to do the towing and the under 10K trailer falls into a range that coincides with the trucks capacity.

Since I am NOT intimate with the specifics of these differences and I'm not intending to confuse anyone, perhaps you can enlighten us all with the facts?

 

[George2615]

See the DK45S/10K trailer post for NY and PA license requirements for trailers over 10K. If the GCVWR is under 26,000 lb. NY doesn't require a CDL, PA does.

 

[Duffster]

If the GCVWR is under 26,000 lb. NY doesn't require a CDL, PA does.

That is not correct

Here is the link for you

DK45S/10k Trailer - Page 3 - TractorByNet.com

 

[Hematite]

Duffster:

Whether the information that I've heard is correct or not, when the trailer GVWR goes to 10K or over, there are completely different standards/ regulations applied to the TV and cargo. I was told by a number of supposedly knowledgeable people that to keep things "simple", that it's desirable to use a trailer under 10K GVWR if the load can be safely towed with it. As far as I know those are correct statements.

I'm also using a 1/2 ton to do the towing and the under 10K trailer falls into a range that coincides with the trucks capacity.

Since I am NOT intimate with the specifics of these differences and I'm not intending to confuse anyone, perhaps you can enlighten us all with the facts?

Duffster:

Since you couldn't be bothered to answer my question after I answered yours, I took the liberty of quoting you from another thread. Your statement was:
"New Yorks new rules now fall inline with the Feds standard (You can't pull a 10k+ trailer with a "B" size truck with a Class B license) just like PA does."

So now, what did I say, originally, that added confusion to the issue? I said that I ordered a 9990 GVWR trailer to avoid 10K and over issues. I'd call what you said in your statement an issue! Still waiting for your definitive answer!

 

[Duffster]

Duffster:

Since you couldn't be bothered to answer my question after I answered yours, I took the liberty of quoting you from another thread. Your statement was:
"New Yorks new rules now fall inline with the Feds standard (You can't pull a 10k+ trailer with a "B" size truck with a Class B license) just like PA does."

So now, what did I say, originally, that added confusion to the issue? I said that I ordered a 9990 GVWR trailer to avoid 10K and over issues. I'd call what you said in your statement an issue! Still waiting for your definitive answer!

If you are towing with a 1/2 ton then it doesn't matter wether you stay under 10k or not. Reason is you won't fall into to Class A or Class B status either way.

If you are pulling trailer with a "B" size truck a 10k+ trailer makes it a Class A rig, not an issue in my opinion because if you can get a Class B you can get a Class A

The only other place that 10k comes into play is the starting point of DOT#, Inspection and Fed Med card requirements. But this is GCWR of 10k whick you would fall into wether you had a 10k or larger trailer.

 

[Hematite]

Duffster:

Thanks for the reply. I have to tell you the more I try to understand these DOT regulations, the more confused I get.

I can see a great big "Class A" headache coming on!

 

[Builder]

I realize it says Maine but it is the same for most of us

I keep the same chart in my truck just in case I get pulled over by a "child" cop.

We have a similar one in PA, except there's hazmat stuff on the chart, too.

 

[Duffster]

Duffster:

Thanks for the reply. I have to tell you the more I try to understand these DOT regulations, the more confused I get.

I can see a great big "Class A" headache coming on!

Yah, A as in ADVIL

I keep the same chart in my truck just in case I get pulled over by a "child" cop

 

[newbury]

Duffster:

Thanks for the reply. I have to tell you the more I try to understand these DOT regulations, the more confused I get.

I can see a great big "Class A" headache coming on!

Actually I think it's a Class VI headache.

 

[Hematite]

Actually I think it's a Class VI headache.

LOL! Yes, that too!