Top-n-Tilt

[robd123]

As I've been looking through posts for comparing box blade verses angle blade, I've seen several mentions of top-n-tilt, especially for maneuverability of the box blade.

The 6000 comes with one set of remotes. Am I correct that I would need two sets for top-n-tilt? If so, does it make sense to get a total of three sets so there is still one free one left?

Time is one thing I am short on, so I doubt that installing the extra remotes would be something I would want to do. I'm hoping to order my tractor this weekend. Have any of you ordered the whole top-n-tilt assembly with your tractor? My dealer hasn't sold any like that yet. Any suggestions on sources for him?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Bob_Skurka]

First, as the owner of a Top & Tilt, I can tell you that 80% of the usefullness
comes from the hydraulic toplink and only 20% from the hydraulic side link. So you may want to consider just the toplink instead of spending the extra money for both top & side. I could easily get buy with just the hydraulic toplink. JMO

Second, the most efficient way to operate a TNT system is with a single joystick that controls both the top and the side cylinders. So while you can use a dual lever set up, with one lever controlling the top cylinder and the other lever controlling the side cylinder, I think you will find that making adjustments "on the fly" to correctly contour the ground will be much easier with a joystick than with a dual lever set up. You would plumb your joystick off the power beyond port not off your rear remote. You can plumb it off your rear remote, but depending on your remote lever, you might have to tie it off or lock it in place to keep the flow to the joystick.

CCM sells the only real TNT system that I know of that is cost effective and useful. Mark Carter is easy to deal with and will help you correctly size your cylinders.

 

[MadReferee]

Yours are frequently asked questions, for any brand tractor.

More remotes are always better as you can always find something to use them for. Typically you need 2 remotes for a TNT, one to control the top link and another to control the side/tilt link. A third remote can be used for other hydraulically operated equipment such as rippers on a box scraper.

If possible, get factory remotes. The installation and routing of lines is much cleaner. However, factory remotes tend to be 2-3 times more expensive than a standalone aux valve with multiple spools.

TNT cylinders with check valves will be available from CCM in February according to Mark from CCM. They are a nice setup and priced right. There are other places that sell cylinders without check valves but they tend to be pricey. If you go the standalone aux valve route, the Prince SV line of valves are fairly compact and they can be configured with several spool types to suit your individual needs.

All of the above has been covered more than once here on TBN. A thorough search for rear remotes or TNT will give you plenty to read.

 

[robd123]

Bob, I know next to nothing about hydraulics. Do I understand you correctly that by using the power beyond port for the TNT, there is no need for extra remotes? Instead the joystick would be the thing to add, correct?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Bob, I know next to nothing about hydraulics. Do I understand you correctly that by using the power beyond port for the TNT, there is no need for extra remotes? Instead the joystick would be the thing to add, correct?

Yes. If you tap into your power beyond (assuming you have one) that would leave your rear remote open for use and the TNT would be powered independantly from your remotes. The single joystick would control both the top and side cylinders and that joystick would be powered by hydraulic flow that the power beyond ports provide.

But I will also yield to "Mad" as he forgot more about hydraulics that I ever learned. I know enough to 'get by' but "Mad" is a real expert. For more specific questions or real technical explinations he is far better suited to answer your questions.

 

[MadReferee]

Bob, I know next to nothing about hydraulics. Do I understand you correctly that by using the power beyond port for the TNT, there is no need for extra remotes? Instead the joystick would be the thing to add, correct?

Power beyond has NOTHING to do with operating the TNT.

Power beyond is nothing more that the configuration of the outlet section of a control valve. When the "power beyond" term is used for things like controlling a backhoe it means that the power beyond outlet of a previous control valve has been re-routed for use by another valve or valves. Remember in an open center system like your tractor, all valves must be in series.

If you want a more detailed description of power beyond valves and how to hookup an aux valve for rear remotes, just search for Power Beyond or Rear Remotes and posts by me. I have described all this at least a few dozen times.

BTW, you will need a set of remotes and controlling valve(s) for each function of the TNT. They can either be from an external aux valve or from factory installed valves.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I probably should have been more clear, as Mad points out you may be confused and I may have added a bit to that.

The power beyond is something that some tractors have and some do not. It is a port that is typically built into your loader control valve and allows hydraulic fluid to power some device beyond the the loader control valve. The power beyond does not actually control anything, it just allows hydraulic fluid flow.

You would have to run 2 hoses or pipes from that power beyond port to your new joystick control. The joystick control then would have 4 additional hoses that would go to the new cylinders. 2 to the toplink cylinder and 2 to the side link. So you end up with lots of hose (6 total) added to your system. If you plumb it this way, you do not need any separate remotes since you are powering your cylinders directly from your joystick control valve.

 

[robd123]

I really appreciate your replies. I've never studied anything on hydraulics. I probably will in the future, to get a better understanding of all this, unfortunately I don't have enough time to do that before ordering a tractor on Saturday.

From what I have read in the threads I have seen here, TNT sounds like something I want to have. Do either of you or others here know the Mahindra tractors well enough (the 6000 specifically) to tell me if the power beyond option is an option for me or if I simply need to get two extra sets of remotes, or something else?

MtnViewRanch, when you listed out what you got with your 7520, you listed hydraulic top and tilt. Was that from the dealer? How were the hydraulics put together? Where did the TNT cylinders come from?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Rob, get all the factory remotes that you can with your tractor ( 3? ). I wish that I had a 3rd remote, it was the one option that I was unaware of that I wish that I had now. If you don't like the factory set up, you could then do a set up like Bob was talking about. You may still need those remotes later on. They are a lot less money if you get them when your tractor is ordered. It is being ordered right? Not a tractor that is on the dealers lot.

My top n tilt hydraulics are standard type hydraulics and do not have double piloted check valves. Unlike most people on TBN, I have no problems with leak down with my cylinders. I am not sure why, other than the 7520's have high quality valves. The TnT was installed by the dealer that I had purchased from.

I am about the exact opposite of Bob when it comes to the use of the TnT, I use the side link adjustment far more than the top link. I guess it just depends on what your doing, the type of implement that you are using and the terrain that you have to work with. I use the top link to hook up to an implement and then to set the correct angle for the type of implement that I am using. Normally does not get adjusted from there. My land changes enough that I am constantly adjusting the side link.

If we can answer any other questions, just ask, good luck.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Rob, Gearmore Implements, based on the west coast, has top & tilt cylinders. Your dealer could purchase from them. They only sell to dealers. You can find them at Welcome To Gearmore Inc. wholesale distributor specializing in ranch, vineyard, orchard, farm, landscape, construction and agricultural implements.

Later

 

[robd123]

Thanks Brian, I need all the help I can get. Depending on the model I end up getting, I will be ordering rather than getting one from the lot.

By using the remotes for the TNT as you have it, does that mean there are separate controls for top and side rather than the joy stick, i.e., there are always separate controls for each remote, right?

When it gets dry here the soil is hard and it is difficult to get a post hole auger to go in with only its own weight. I was planning to get the optional cylinder which is supposed to give 550 lbs of down pressure (This is the 2102 Bush Hog post hole auger). Did you get such an option on your post hole auger? Would the top cylinder of the TNT do the same thing?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Rob, if you use the factory remotes, they will have separate control levers- knobs for each hydraulic. The top link is removed when using a post hole digger. The main boom is attached at the top link point of the 3 point hitch, so no, a hydraulic top link will not work for the down pressure kit of a post hole digger. Funny that you ask about the down pressure kit, I just ordered one for my Landpride PD35, in fact it was supposed to be in today. I will have to check tomorrow. Something to think about when you get your post hole digger is that the heavy duty ones have a lower gear ratio 4-1 instead of 3-1, and that makes them easier to use IMO. I got tired of waiting for my holes to get dug this past weekend, and I have to much stuff to do, to waste time when it could go faster. I hope that this makes a big difference in the time spent digging holes.

 

[MadReferee]

Repeat after me..."Buy factory remotes if you are hydraulically challenged".

Buy as many as are available for your tractor and that's usually three. Forget about the cost since you have doubts about installing it all yourself.

You will have one lever to control the cylinders connected to each pair of remote QD's. For a TNT you will have one lever/remote for the top link and one lever/remote for the tilt link.

If you want a joystick to control the rear remotes then you have to use an aux externally mounted valve with a joystick. Factory remotes are not controled with a joystick.

Forget about power beyond. You obviously still do not understand what it is or how it is implemented.

Repeat after me..."Buy factory remotes if you are hydraulically challenged". You will be glad you did.

 

[mikim]

..."Buy factory remotes if you are hydraulically challenged". rob -- from one hyd challenged individual to another -- I ditto Mad's remark -- Get every remote your tractor will allow when you order it. It may seem overkill right now - but later you'll be glad you did. When I got my NH almost 6 years ago - I only got one remote .... I now have 2 and it looks like I'll be taking it in for a third if we get a backhoe this spring like the wife wants ..... (I imagine that's going to happen) As time passes and you do more & more with the tractor - you're going to need more capability. without it - you'll be limited to what you can do or what implements you can have. Also - if you're getting a loader - be sure to get a quick connect bucket --- another miss on my part that I had to fix later....at more $$

 

[jpm]

if you look down the list of posts you'll see a post of mine labeled " adding remotes" and it will show you, if your loader valve set up is the same as a 4110, how to do it. IF you are not comfortable in messing with this stuff please follow
Mads advice

 

[HayDR]

The CCM hydraulic toplinks and side links with double piloted check valves will arrive at CCM on Monday April 2. Please give us a day to check them in before you call and place your order. We will start taking orders Tuesday April 3. ALL sizes should be available.
Thank you for your patience and support.
Mark Carter