Too Much Power?

[Greg - Kioti CK20 TLB]

Hey Guys,

Just a little update on my CK20 TLB...I think a may have a small problem. The KB2365 Backhoe may be too powerful! Now I know that it violates every man rule in existence to admit that a tool may be too powerful but that bad boy BH tosses my little CK20 around like a rag doll!

I've been digging out stumps the last two days and when the bucket grabs a root it cannot break I can feel the front of the tractor lift off the ground. I also find it very easy to drag the tractor back-wards with the backhoe when I grab hold of a stubborn stump!

I'm now very seriously considering buying the optional feet for the stabilizer pads, even if they are $65 apiece. I thought it was odd the first time I looked at the stabilizer pads and saw how smooth they are...not sure why they are designed this way.

I agonized between a CK20 and a CK25 for a long time and finally my lovely wife convinced me that the Ck20 was "cuter" and would fit on our small parcel better than the "big" one. Our main concern was that we wanted to make some walking trails on our heavy wooded property and we wanted to cut as few trees as possible, so smaller tractor = more trees saved.

Man, I wish I would have "super-sized" and gone for the CK25 or CK30.

Don't get me wrong, too much power is usually not something to complain about! But I could definitely use a little more weight/ballast.

Yes, I've got pic's! Let me preface this by saying that these are not the most impressive stumps ever posted on TBN. It's still alot of fun though! I mean work, alot of work!

 

[albmn10]

Hey Greg, never complain about having too much power..hehe, But seriously, does the kb65 have reversable feet? I have the Woods 80xt hoe on my Ck30 and the feet are flat on one side for pavement , and slotted for gripping the ground on the other. If i use the backhoe with the flat shoes on soft ground, the machine will drag around pretty easily. When using the slotted side , the outriggers will bite in nicely, keeping me somewhat where i want to be. Just curious... Matt

 

[Greg - Kioti CK20 TLB]

Hi Matt,

Reversible stabilizers? I don't think so but I'll check it out tomorrow to be sure. I looked once before to see if I could move them and didn't see any obvious way to remove and reinstall them.

I seem to recall reading a similar thread about the Kioti backhoe stabilizer pads and even have seen some homemade feet but I don't own a welder to make my own.

Perhaps another Kioti BH owner can answer the question about reversible feet?

 

[Steverino]

Try getting a load of gravel in the front buck for some weight or add front-end weights. That should help keep it down. On the ck30 the pad are reversible without removing the by pulling the stop pin and flipping them over.

 

[Dmace]

Reversible feet ? Not that I know of.

My fix to the backhoe tossing the tractor around is straping it to a big truck. Works like a charm.

Good Job on the stumps, the pics look good!

 

[Greg - Kioti CK20 TLB]

Steverino -->> I noticed that my stabilizer feet have a removable pin but I don't know why. I'll check and see if I remove the pin if I can rotate the feet to give me more bite.

Derek -->> You just saw this as an opportunity to post a picture of you awesome truck! I'd love to have a Ram (either Patriot Blue or Inferno Red). Your pic's are the reason I said my stumps weren't the most impressive ones ever posted on TBN! Nice job on the 22" Oak. By the way, are your FEL bucket hooks welded on or did you just use bolts? Can I drill through the bucket with a cordless drill? I'd like to have one or two hooks but I don't have a welder and my property doesn't have electricity.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[weesa20]

I had the same problem with a Kubota B21...I was digging a midsized loblolly pine and the hoe tossed the tractor around, even with the "gripping" feet. I wasn't very impressed by the B21 but maybe my expectations were too high. Could have been operator error as well.

W

 

[cgraham]

Newbie; add fluid to tires?

How does the Ck series compare in cost & function (& HP) to the LB1914 and LK3054 (I'm confused by the many model numbers)? Trying to find out what to look for to maintain hard gravel and rock driveway, used OK. Drifting OT, sorry.

C

 

[Greg - Kioti CK20 TLB]

Hi C,

Good thought on the loaded tires, I'll have to check with my dealer to see if they have fluid in them now. I orginally thought that they would be filled because of the loader, but who knows?

The LB1914 appears to be a slightly older style tractor than the CK20. The LB1914 has 19 HP and weighs 2,100 lbs for the tractor alone. The CK20 has 21 HP and weighs 1,900 lbs for the tractor alone. The Ck20 has a more "modern" design along with the HST transmission option. Based on my crude analysis, the LB1914 is an older model but equivalent to the CK20 in size and power, whereas the LK3054 is roughly equivalent to the CK30.

 

[sodamo]

I recently dug a smallish hole, roughly 20'X20', 5-7 feet deep, with my CK30. I found reducing my rpm's gave me greater bh control without any loss of power. I think I settled around 1800 for most of the bh work.

David

 

[Dmace]

My hooks are welded on, the dealer put them on before delivery (at no extra cost). It is one of the most useful things on the tractor. My tires are loaded which helps with dragging plus I have a rock that fits perfectly in the front bucket that I usually grab for extra weight.

Here are some pics of the hooks going on.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/kioti-buying-pricing/46576d1130773110-finally-placed-my-order-today-763433-weldinghooks.jpg

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/kioti-buying-pricing/46577d1130773600-finally-placed-my-order-today-763438-grinding.jpg

It's hard not to show off the "HEMI", it's so photogenic.

 

[yubacitykioti]

If you want to make your own backhoe stabilizer pads or feet, you can do so by using some 3 inch channel that is about 1/4 inch thick and cut it to about 7.5 inches long and just drill 2 holes that will line up with the current holes in your stabilizer pads. Make 4 of them so you can bolt up 2 on each stabilizer and you are set. Your dealer may have some frames that have the channel because the tractors come sitting on the channel. just ask him for 32 inches of channel and you will be set as long as you have a drill and a chop saw.

 

[George2615]

By tossing your CK20 around do you mean the weight of the hoe swinging? or does it just swing too fast. If too fast you could slow down the RPM to slow down the BH pump to get a smoother swing. You could also load some weight in the bucket since the CK20 doesn't have a lot of weight. For BH work like your doing you need to go easy. For heavy digging of stumps / large rocks etc. there is nothing like having the weight of a larger TLB. Maybe your asking too much of your machine.

 

[Dmace]

By tossing your CK20 around do you mean the weight of the hoe swinging? or does it just swing too fast. If too fast you could slow down the RPM to slow down the BH pump to get a smoother swing. You could also load some weight in the bucket since the CK20 doesn't have a lot of weight. For BH work like your doing you need to go easy. For heavy digging of stumps / large rocks etc. there is nothing like having the weight of a larger TLB. Maybe your asking too much of your machine.

By "tossing around" I meant that the pulling force of the backhoe will actually pull the tractor towards the stump, rock, whatever...

By chaining it to the truck or a tree, the tractor stays put and you can really get the full use out of the backhoe. I have yet to hear any whining from the backhoe. I know I am not asking too much from it or overrunning it. It is just so powerful you need to anchor the tractor better. I can't complain about that.

 

[mauistardog]

Added gravel to the loader will help. but if your are trying to breaksomething that is beyond the backhoe, like a root, you make end up putting more stress on the backhoe than needed. stumps take time, i now get down off the machine and give the roots a good wack with an axe. just enough to get a brake so when I pull on it with the backhoe it will snap. I bounced the tractor around one day that the oil filter came loose.
good luck
aloha
joe

 

[dfkrug]

The CK20 is only 2K lb naked, as is my JD 955. The b/h on my
JD can easily drag the tractor around, even with my reversible
dirt outrigger feet. I have used my same backhoe on 3K lb
tractors and it works much better. More weight is needed and you
MUST have sharp outrigger feet. Jamming the loader bkt
edge into the ground helps, too.

 

[darkviper]

I have a CK20hst with a tooth bar and kb2365 i had the same issue. I built some pads to go on the outriggers out ardly ever i have the issue. when it get real tight i curl the bucket backwards and let the tooth bar help. Most of the time though i can stall the backhoe with just the outriggers out and the loader set so i can move the tractor in nutral with the backhoe. Makes for easier trenching. THe pades are made with 3" angleangle back peices in the angle for added strength. When the BH loads down dig in. I have removed stumps with both the bear outrigger pad and then with the angle iron and the agle iron stopped the movement. I recently dug out a 12 oak stump in about 10 minutes

 

[Greg - Kioti CK20 TLB]

I had a chance to get some more seat time over the weekend and use the backhoe. A load of gravel in the FEL definitely helps to stabilize the tractor while using the backhoe. Also, I had previously always shifted the tractor into neutral and set the parking brake. I found that by leaving the tractor in low gear (I have a HST) that this also helped the tractor from moving backwards when using the backhoe.

Safety note: I am careful to set the parking brake, lower the FEL and set the stabilizer feet to reduce the risk of unintended movements.

Also, I did find that a little more experience with feathering the controls helps keep the backhoe under control without losing any power. Personally, I didn't like the performance when I lowered the engine RPM from 2200 to 1800. I found that it made the cycle times too long when operating the backhoe.

My next step is to add outrigger feet. The suggestion of using c-channel is a good idea. I had previous thought of using angle but the c-channel should work much better. I haven't had a chance to look for a "free" source it yet but even if the dealer doesn't have any I can certainly buy it cheaper than buying the optional Kioti outrigger feet for $65 each.

Thanks to everyone for all the help. As usual, the advice was right on target.

 

[IslandTractor]

I found that by leaving the tractor in low gear (I have a HST) that this also helped the tractor from moving backwards when using the backhoe.

Safety note: I am careful to set the parking brake, lower the FEL and set the stabilizer feet to reduce the risk of unintended movements.

Despite your precautions, I'm not sure 1) it is a good or safe idea to try to engage the HST in forward while you are using the BH and 2) I cannot figure out how you could do that without putting a rock on the HST pedal. If the pedal is properly balanced/adjusted, it should go into neutral when you take your foot off.

The two tricks I have learned with the BH to prevent pulling the tractor towards the stump/rock/hole are 1) dig the dumped FEL bucket with toothbar directly down in the soil as an anchor and 2) use more curl function to dig rather than trying to pull the bucket towards the tractor. Obviously you cannot avoid some pulling force on the tractor but you can use a slightly different digging technique to dig the bucket down rather than drag it back towards the tractor and that helps, especially with roots/stumps. Dig enough to get the bucket teeth under a root rather than just pulling on it. Once you are under a root you can use the very powerful curl function to rip it more easily than trying to pull it towards the tractor.

I also use the stabilizers as lateral stabilizers and don't take a lot of weight off the rear (loaded) wheels when I set them.

 

[Dmace]

Despite your precautions, I'm not sure 1) it is a good or safe idea to try to engage the HST in forward while you are using the BH and 2) I cannot figure out how you could do that without putting a rock on the HST pedal. If the pedal is properly balanced/adjusted, it should go into neutral when you take your foot off.

He is talking about having the High/Low Range selector in neutral as apposed to having it in Low. I have never tried the BH with the range selector in Neutral, but I can't imagine it helping at all. I always leave it in Low.