Today, would you buy an EV vehicle.

[CH4Ohio]

Where's the data for the $5.9 Trillion subsidy to "fossil fuels" that you mention? In what form was this subsidy paid and to who?

Other than standard business expenses and GAAP accounting, I'm not aware of any subsidies for drilling a well or building a pipeline.

Nevermind. Quick search took me to the IMF report that stated this $5.9 Trillion subsidy. Did you read the summary details?

They aren't saying that the oil, coal, and gas industry RECEIVED $5.9 Trillion. In fact, they say that only 8% of these dollars are "explicit subsidies" while 92% are "implicit subsidies". Lots of smoke and mirrors.

They say that our energy prices have been too low. They claim that's an "explicit subsidy" and that money would have been extracted from the public and society if coal, oil, and gas had been priced properly. They're calling that a "subsidy."

The much larger 92% is their estimate of the "environmental damage and impact" and the "negative health consequences" that society has to absorb. They state that this could be recovered with a heavy carbon tax, which we would all have to pay. They're saying that the cost to treat someone who gets skin cancer because we've damaged the ozone layer, for example, is a "subsidy" to the "fossil fuel" industry. (Really??)

The IMF report is very much an academic exercise and subject to debate as to the methodology. By the same token, the health implications and the environmental damage caused by mining rare-earth minerals in Mongolia to support wind turbines or EV batteries would be a "subsidy" for the "green" initiative.

Not really the same DIRECT subsidies and concrete tax credits we've been discussing.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

I have 5 miles of dirt road to get to my place in the country. That means that any charging would have to be done either at my house or wherever I'm at doing business.

So far there's zero infrastructure to support anything electric, and if you happen to see a Tesla you always wonder if it's going to make it back to wherever it came from, or to wherever it's going.

Change is in the air, you can smell it. Laws get passed wether they make sense or not, it depends on where the money is flowing from and how much public support they believe they can get.

I could go electric on something to just get me to town and back for basic grocery runs, appointments, etc. But to haul the RV I need my diesel pickup with a 1000 mile range. That's not going to be replaced by an electric any time soon unless it's the size of a Kenworth.

 

[garydstuart]

We had no batteries until last year, solar array installed in 2015. The big "issue" with solar and no batteries is that in a grid outage the solar panel inverter is automatically shut down to protect line workers so while you COULD have electricity during the day, you aren't allowed to. With battery backup you don't even know the power is off.

Some solar installations invert DC to AC at the panel, others (like mine) use an inverter attached to the house so DC from the panels to the inverter, AC from the inverter to the house and grid, DC to the batteries.


What car is that? Not a Bolt.

I bought a Prius Prime 3 years ago when my 2009 Prius was hit and totalled (second Prius I've had to replace for that reason!!!). In the summer I can go 35 miles all electric, winter is 15-20 depending on the temperature. I live in Vermont, we have winter tires and COLD!. Total range is 650 miles. I put just over 200 gallons of gas in it over 25K miles. Would be a lot less gas if not for two 425 mile trips to MA twice a year and the 1,200 mile round trips to Canada where daughter went to college. A 300 mile nonstop (other than traffic controls of course) trip to Bangor yielded 74 MPG so even when the electric range is used up it gets amazing mileage.

Bought a Leaf (range 220 miles summer) in August 2020 for my wife to drive to work - 70 miles round trip 6 days a week. Daily summer kW use is about 20, closer to 30 in the winter. We charge off peak for about $0.13/kWh so her summer commute costs $2.60 or just over 1/2 gallon of gas at current prices. Winter is about $3.90.

Lucid Air GT...our Bolt is ~250 miles on a full charge...it's a city car where we stop/start a lot and travel a few miles on average so we rarely have to plug it into the wall (just use a standard outlet).

 

[rd_macgregor]

I don't expect I'll ever buy an internal combustion engine vehicle again. My current vehicles should last me through most of the rest of this decade. Within a year or two, electric cars will be priced lower than comparable ICE ones. Trucks will follow soon thereafter. I don't know how long before practical tractors will appear, though. Operating and maintenance costs are so much lower for an EV that even now, with EVs priced significantly higher than ICE equivalents, it makes economic sense to get the EV. Note that high demand has encouraged Tesla to boost their pricing so wait times to delivery don't go beyond a year. If Tesla reduced prices so its margins matched the industry average, Tesla vehicle prices would barely exceed ICE equivalents now...but demand would surge so wait times would be multiple years, frustrating everyone.
Battery life and waste disposal are rapidly being proven non-issues (as is "range anxiety). The materials in the batteries are too valuable, concentrated and accessible not to recycle them...as the world EV fleet grows, more and more of the base supply of the critical battery elements will be coming from recycled batteries of retired EVs and other applications (cell phones, cordless tools, power storage systems, etc.).
Improvements in battery technology and solar/wind power generation have combined to make it much more economical to install grid-scale and small, home-based solar (and sometimes wind) power systems, so the traditional electric company and gas station may be as disrupted (doomed?) as the traditional car dealership.

 

[PorterMF65]

If electric vehicles become the norm, you will be charged a core charge and probably taxed on the waste when you take it to the junk yard or trade it in. I'd bet someone is already sitting on that government document waiting for it to happen. It's all about making money. As far as helping the environment, not so sure.

 

[shooterdon]

I don't expect I'll ever buy an internal combustion engine vehicle again. My current vehicles should last me through most of the rest of this decade. Within a year or two, electric cars will be priced lower than comparable ICE ones. Trucks will follow soon thereafter. I don't know how long before practical tractors will appear, though. Operating and maintenance costs are so much lower for an EV that even now, with EVs priced significantly higher than ICE equivalents, it makes economic sense to get the EV. Note that high demand has encouraged Tesla to boost their pricing so wait times to delivery don't go beyond a year. If Tesla reduced prices so its margins matched the industry average, Tesla vehicle prices would barely exceed ICE equivalents now...but demand would surge so wait times would be multiple years, frustrating everyone.
Battery life and waste disposal are rapidly being proven non-issues (as is "range anxiety). The materials in the batteries are too valuable, concentrated and accessible not to recycle them...as the world EV fleet grows, more and more of the base supply of the critical battery elements will be coming from recycled batteries of retired EVs and other applications (cell phones, cordless tools, power storage systems, etc.).
Improvements in battery technology and solar/wind power generation have combined to make it much more economical to install grid-scale and small, home-based solar (and sometimes wind) power systems, so the traditional electric company and gas station may be as disrupted (doomed?) as the traditional car dealership.

Good Lord....
You live on a 2200 sq mile island that is about 140 miles long and 20 miles wide.

Some of us live in the real world. My closest family is a 200 mile drive...one way.

 

[ultrarunner]

I’m sure it’s coming… driving a great distance will be targeted as recreational use.

We see distance differently than many developed countries.

I know from my time in Europe a 50 mile distance is already far when everything is very much local.

Im that crazy American that would make a Day trip to Italy or Switzerland or Slovenia for lunch and to see the scenery.

Two of my colleagues wanted to take me to lunch on a Saturday to their favorite Salzburg lake destination but there was a storm brewing with hail and lightening…

As they were trying to decide a plan B I kept driving and we ended up in Italy… it was a great trip and their families were speechless… one co worker had Never been to Italy yet it borders Austria!!!

No matter what your view on EV is it warms my heart every time I see a Made in California Tesla in Europe!!!

 

[Torvy]

Good Lord....
You live on a 2200 sq mile island that is about 140 miles long and 20 miles wide.

Some of us live in the real world. My closest family is a 200 mile drive...one way.

it is 824 miles to my nearest relative. About time to make that drive again.

Imagine the service stations of the future. Extraordinarily long lines as people wait to plug in for 20+ minutes. Waits may not be bad now as vehicles are still few. Even if we could produce enough electricity to charge all vehicles, the infrastructure and logistics will be a nightmare.

 

[droy]

Down here in Lousy-Anna I recently read where some politicians were pushing for an annual EV flat tax of (at least) $60. Before the bill was voted on, some were already arguing $60 wasn’t nearly enough to compensate for the tax loss at the gasoline pump. You can’t make this stuff up.

 

[Jstpssng]

Yes, we do...
Although I do think Fusion power would be safer, commercial power generation by fusion is still probably a couple decades away

Yet if we hadn't walked away from that path 40 years ago, it would have been powering our homes for the last couple of decades.
You must remember Seabrook... the nuclear plant which bankrupted NH Public Service because after spending millions of dollars the rules changed, and they weren't allowed to bring it on line.