Tiller Tillers

[fishman]

Bird,

Some excellent pointers on tillers which I had not previously considered. I think I'll print your comments up and study them before I go talk to the "boss"./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Maybe she'll give in 'cause I just became a PLATINUM member!/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[RonL]

Bird

Another thing tillers can be used for is roadbuilding. Portland cement is spread over a gravel ( earth ) base and tilled in. This mixture is then compacted. Naturally occurring moisture ( or possibly added moisture) solidifies this base. Voila! A road base.

RonL

 

[MChalkley]

Mutt - I used to have problems from time to time in really hard stuff with the tiller wanting to walk on top, instead of digging in and really chewing it up. Perhaps a reverse-till machine would do better in that situation, but there are other issues, there, too.

With the scarifiers, it's the best of both worlds. I've never seen a situation yet where they were a disadvantage - sometimes I want them deeper than the tines, others about the same depth, but I've never wanted them up "out of the way".

They'll pull up big rocks, or even stop the tractor if they run into something really big - and I'd a lot rather find something like that with the scarifiers than the tiller (you haven't lived until you've had a 900-pound tiller hopping up in the air banging away on a huge rock like a flamenco dancer!).

But the biggest advantage of them is that they break whatever you're tilling up into "bite-size" pieces, so the tiller can make short work of them. One pass will usually till up most soils as well as two passes used to - a real time saver. I've had some real "flop" modifications, but this one has been a huge success.

 

[TerryinMD]

Mark,

How about a couple of shots of the enhancements you made (not on the tractor)?

What and where did you get the materials to build the rig?

I was wondering about the tiller wanting to "dig in" with the angle you have on the scarifiers. The previous post helps but I have trouble picturing how the scarifiers actual work.

Input, must have input....

Terry

 

[MChalkley]

Terry - Sure, I think some pics could be arranged...

The scarifier is a scarifier bar that can be purchased separately from Landpride. It comes with a three-point-hitch on the front of it and a three-point "receiver" on the back. It's made so you can hook it up to a tractor, then put a blade or rake or whatever on behind it. I couldn't use it that way, of course, because the PTO shaft had to go through. So, I cut all the three-point-hitch stuff off the top of it, which left me with just a scarifier bar. If I had it to do over again, I'd try to find an old beat-up box scraper and cut the scarifier bar out of that.

As to function, if the ground is pretty soft, it can have a tendency to pull the tiller down a bit, but this is easily controlled with the angle of the teeth via the top link (especially if you have "top and tilt"), and by raising the scarifiers a notch. I've really never seen it want to do that to any objectionable degree but once. And it was easy to overcome. If you had to, of course, you could raise the scarifiers all the way up, but I've never seen a reason to.

When you're pulling the scarifiers through really hard ground, there's a fair bit of pressure against the top link, of course, which tends to raise the tiller out of the ground unless the top link is adjusted to the right length (again, t-n-t helps a lot here), but the pressure against the top link is still less than it would be with a box scraper, because of the tiller's added weight.

Does this answer your questions about how the scarifiers work?

 

[TerryinMD]

Mark,

You answered my question very well, thank you. /w3tcompact/icons/king.gif

You also have some good ideas for getting the scarifiers. I may have to hit the auctions this year to get a beat up box blade. Having the pictures for reference would be real handy. So whenever you get a chance, it would be great. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Terry

 

[DDT]

blurrybill
I got mine last march and give 2450 plus tax and it was delivered to my place. 2570 -6 tine and slip clutch it is a REAL HOG compared to my old LP 15-50 tiller

 

[MChalkley]

Terry - I'll work on the pictures, maybe tomorrow. Keep in mind, too, that, to get a scarifier bar the right length, you might want a box scraper a little wider than the tiller. Ideally, you want a tooth just about centered on the tines on each end, with the rest of them equally spaced between them. It's not super critical, but, ideally, you'd do it that way. As the saying goes, if you're going to go to the trouble to do it, you might as well do it right...

 

[ddl]

if you are going to do it right, why not buy a chisel and chisel first , then till. One must remember to make sure your tractor has the power to handle the equipment. The idea of using ground breakers before tilling virgin ground is great, if your tractor can handle the extra load. You can buy a five or six foot chisel, once you have this you can really work the ground.

Dan L

 

[MChalkley]

Dan L - That's one of the beauties of having the scarifiers on the tiller: The tiller is helping helping you push the scarifiers. Now, I doubt that the engine power, once converted to PTO power, transmitted through a shaft, then another gearbox and chain or gear drive, is going to be as efficient as applying that power to the wheels, but the limiting factor on most CUTs when pulling ground engaging implements is traction not horsepower. So using some of that horsepower that you really can't get to the ground anyway to turn a tiller that will push the scarifiers while the tractor is pulling them makes for an excellent combination. Plus, you save a lot of time by doing it in one pass. At least, that's been my experience. YMMV.

 

[ddl]

I being a farm raised person looks at the setup and think hey a chisel would work , where you look at it and say, looks like something to tear up an area. both will work but a chisel just has to work better!!!

Dan L

 

[JATO_RaT]

Mark, I think the rippers are a great idea, not only will they help out the tines but find obstacles just beneath the surface like roots and rocks. I could see rigging up a pantograph type setup with one hydraulic cylinder to lower a ripper rack down to the point where you could go full rippers with the added weight of the tiller or out of the way altogether. I did not check your profile, but will have to and see if you list the brand of tiller. What are your thoughts about it? I see alot of folks have tillers and think highly of what they have. Again, I remember your picture from before, just never put two and two together but now that its been refreshed, I have a few ideas to work on when I get the time, Rat...

 

[MChalkley]

Rat - I've got an Agric tiller - made in Italy. It's been a good tiller, no doubt about that - as with most of my stuff, I've abused the stuffings out of it, and it's never failed me. If I had it to do over again, though, I'd buy an all-gear-drive tiller, because you could basically use it as a reverse-till unit when that worked best, and a regular one re rest of the time.

In fact, Agric makes an all-gear-drive tiller that is reversable (without going backwards - the gearbox lets you select forward or reverse operation) and has 2 or 3 speeds. I don't remember how much it costs, though - not cheap, I'm sure.

 

[PaulT]

Bird,

I read a post of yours on a related thread just AFTER/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif I posted my comments. I appreciate your feedback. As usual - concise, practical and right on the mark. After considering your points, you have converted me to a forward rotating disciple, especially with Mark Chalkley's suggestion of a scarifier bar! The only thing that might get me to buy a counter-rotating model is the road construction idea. (see my response to RonL)

 

[PaulT]

Adding portland cement to a gravel drive is an interesting idea, Ron. I have a 800 foot long gravel drive, and that would make a nice surface, especially for plowing in the winter. It seems like it might be expensive. How much do you need to add in to the gravel base per linear foot of driveway, assuming a 12-14 foot wide road? How much would that amount cost? Where would be the best place to purchase it? Also, wouldn't tilling into a compacted gravel driveway be murder on the tines? I know the only thing under my #2 gravel is rip rap and dirt. The rip rap may have settled in below the tiller depth by now, but still, seems like your just asking for trouble with the tines/clutc/shear pin/gear box. COme to think of it, everything! Anyone ever use a tiller like this in a mature (compacted) gravel drive?

 

[PaulT]

<font color=blue><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

As the saying goes, if you're going to go to the trouble to do it, you might as well do it right...

<hr></blockquote>

</font color=blue>
My grandfather owned/operated a woodshop in a small town. Next door to him lived what could only be described as a hermit. He had some great sayings that my grandfather related to me. His version of your "old addage" was "Better to do it right than in the first place" Certainly that was advice you couldn't argue with. My grandfather's favorite was "Nature is almost as good as the real thing"

 

[RonL]

Paul

I have only just started to research this. Before I get to this stage in construction I intend to thoroughly research this option. My take on it so far is that it is not used on base that has already been brought in and compacted. It is used on sandy subsoils (gravel). The topsoil is stripped. Portland cement is tilled into the subsoil and compacted.
When I get all the research sources together I'll post them.

RonL

 

[RET]

Doe anyone have experience with the 'First Choice' brand of tillers? My local dealer says he can get me the First Choice brand for a few hundred less than the equivelent Land Pride.
But, he just started carrying this line and does not know much about it. Any comments? I'm not at all familiar with First Choice. Any info on any of their implements?
-R

 

[gerard]

re mixing cement - I read an article once on how to make an inexpensive basketball court and it was to till one bag of dry mix per sq yard then tamp. That would be quite a bit for a driveway. I have used the same concept when doing horse stalls blending the dry mix with the stone dust, makes for a harder surface than the stone dust alone.

 

[MChalkley]

Re: Tillers w/scarifiers

Terry - Here's a pic of the scarifier mod to my tiller, as promised, though a lot later than promised...