Tiller versus plow, cultivator, and disk harrow

cmkh3 · Dec 23, 2004

Thanks for this information.
If the tiller then would you recommend a tiller powered by itself such as the Agro-fab unit which can be towed behind a fairly basic gt like the units from whomever or a tiller powered by the tractor, a bigger unit? Also if powered by the tractor is hydraulic powered by the tractors hydro pump or a pulley with it's own pump or mechanical with a direct drive from a PTO output shaft on the back of the rear axle of the tractor?

Chris

Egon · Dec 23, 2004

Think the self powered versus tractor powered tiller would depend on the tractor type and horsepower.

Egon

Buck · Dec 24, 2004

You will not be able to pull a plow. The tiller works on the surface, the plow moves the bottom topsoil to the top. My 30 HP diesel JD CUT has a hard time with my 2 bottom plow. I have a tiller too. I use my plow for large areas and my tiller for small. I use the plow to smooth out 1/2 acre regions for civilization and my tiller for my wifes gardens. Tillers are great for small areas.

The tiller you get with a garden tractor tiller will scratch the surface and will be the only option you have. That is not a problem for a garden. A plow though -- forget it.

Best of luck!

bontai_Joe · Dec 24, 2004

Buck, living in upstste NY may have similar soil to what I suffer with in north east PA; LOTS of rock with just enough diret in between to fill in the spaces, and a garden tractor will struggle to plow it. But I offer a link to another forum that sponcers at least one "Plow Day" per year done with garden tractors using as little as 8 HP. Also keep in mind that they pull a single plow blade. Here is the link:

http://www.weekendfreedommachines.org/gallery/album142

Schultz · Jan 3, 2005

Pulling a plow all depends on the soil. I have a sandy loam soil and my Ingersoll 448 (18hp) pulls a single plow through it just fine. If I wanted to rip up a new area I need the tire chains on. I have two problems with using the plow, and these two pretty much prevent me from using it. First, my garden is fenced in so it makes it hard to maneuver in a 50'x50' area and plow the hole area, without running over much that been plowed. Second, it's a real PITA to remove the mower deck once it's on, so I don't, and you really need the mower deck off to do any amount of plowing, not to mention putting the chains back on.

Having a disc would be nice, I wish I had one. I would be great in the spring to run through the garden and cut up/turn over some the weeds and leaves that accumulate, before tilling later on.
Since I don't use my plow much, I do use my walk behind tiller alot in the spring and summer. It's much easier to use in a fenced in garden, but it's slower. Take the good with the bad I guess.
It would be nice to have a garden tractor tiller but it would only find limited use during the fall and the spring since they're 48" wide for my tractor. Having a 20" wide tiller is more practicle since it can be used to till between rows and throughout the planting season growing season. Otherwise you need to leave 5' paths to get your tractor in and out. I plant my garden pretty dense (less weeds to weed) so a tractor wouldn't work unless I expeanded my garden.

Libertine · Jan 31, 2005

cmkh3:

What say you to support the use of either a tiller or a plow, cultivator and a disk harrow. 

None of the above. In spite of what may be posted in your thread, there are only 2 types of implements which do not create a "plow pan." A tiller does. To break up a the soil you don't DIG OUT the tilled/plowed area and do a second plowing. Unbelievable. You use a chisel plow which cuts/lifts/breaks up the pan. The plow is worse at creating a pan type barrier because as it slides along (turning the ground over) it is also compacting/smoothing it. But the tiller can have the same effect, just not as bad.

The two ground engaging implements that DO NOT create a hardened area (which reduces water drainage/percolation) are a rotary plow and a spader. Neither of these are available for so-called "garden tractors". They require a serious ag tractor with a PTO. The rotary plow turns like a corkscrew and fluffs up the dirt. Only the very tips of the auger create any hardening of the soil. The spader rotates (like the tiller) but at a slow speed and "digs" into the ground (it recreates the effect of hand spading) and slightly lifts the soil without turning it over. The rotary plow is available only for the 2 wheel ag tractors (such as the old Gravelies and many newer brands such as the BCS) which have pto. The spader is available for both the 2 wheel ag tractors and also available for the CUT (with 3 point hitch, pto etc). However, because of the down thrust of the spades it is a workout to use a spader on a 2 wheel tractor. Spaders and rotary plows are used in Europe on smaller farms on both 2 wheel and 4 wheel ag tractors.

If you do a search in the general buying section (the first forum on this site) for 2 wheel tractors you will find an extensive thread on the 2 wheel tractors which can do everything a "garden tractor" can do and much much more, are light weight (so do not compress the soil), are much easier to maneuver, etc.

JEH

bontai_Joe · Feb 1, 2005

( cmkh3:

None of the above. In spite of what may be posted in your thread, there are only 2 types of implements which do not create a "plow pan." A tiller does. To break up a the soil you don't DIG OUT the tilled/plowed area and do a second plowing. Unbelievable. You use a chisel plow which cuts/lifts/breaks up the pan. JEH

)
I refered to digging out the plowed soil and then plowing (or tilling) a second time to break up plow pan, as that was the common practice in Europe for centuries. I agree your idea of a chisel plow or rotary plow is indeed better, but they are a recent developement in the over all scheme of things. In any event, if he is using a garden tractor, the major cause of soil compaction is minimized as the machinery is much lighter than the 5,000-20,000 pounds that a "big" tractor weighs. It also depends a lot on his soil type and climate. The freeze-thaw cycles I experience in northern PA are constantly moving the soil around, blessing me with a fresh crop of rocks every spring. It is no accident that many of the old houses and barns in my area are built of stone. Farmers must have figured that at least those were out of the soil forever.

cmkh3 · Feb 2, 2005

First many thanks to all who have responded, the education given here is invaluable.

 In any event, if he is using a garden tractor, 
Yes I will be or a very small sub cut like the Kubota BX1500 or 2230.

Chris

Bowhunter · Feb 9, 2005

( Thanks for this information.
If the tiller then would you recommend a tiller powered by itself such as the Agro-fab unit which can be towed behind a fairly basic gt like the units from whomever or a tiller powered by the tractor, a bigger unit? Also if powered by the tractor is hydraulic powered by the tractors hydro pump or a pulley with it's own pump or mechanical with a direct drive from a PTO output shaft on the back of the rear axle of the tractor?

Chris )

( Yes I will be or a very small sub cut like the Kubota BX1500 or 2230.
)

The BX series have a small cat. 1 3ph and pto. I'd recommend a small tiller (42" to 48" or thereabouts) that is pto driven. These units will be much better quality than the Agro-fab and will require much less repairs/maintenance. With the Agro-fab you will also have a small engine to work on.

Libertine · Feb 14, 2005

bontai_Joe:

if he is using a garden tractor 

One of the problems of communication is using the same term to refer to 2 different things. cmkh3's BX isn't what I would call a "garden tractor" since it has pto, 3pt, etc. At best, what are often referred to as garden tractors have pulleys for power transmission. cmkh3's BX is what I'd call a "real" tractor, albeit very small.

is much lighter than the 5,000-20,000 pounds that a "big" tractor weighs. 

True enough, although even a person walking over an area can create 10-15 psi. In my limited experience, I've found stuff usually grows best without any compaction. The easier the root system can reach down and draw water, minerals, chemicals etc the better.

also depends a lot on his soil type and climate

Yes. And structure such as the relative percentages of clay/silt/sand/humus (easily tested by filling a quart mason jar about 1/3 full of soil, the rest with water, shake really good then let sit - the different components will settle based on their weight with a clear line separating them, humus floating on top, then clay, then silt and sand at the bottom).

JEH

PS - any way to sell your "crop" of rocks every year??? (since they "grow" for free). hummm.