Buying Advice Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors?

   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #251  
But just like children, there are always going to be some of them are just naturally more selfish than others. When what the selfish ones are doing begins to affect everyone else, what should the rest of society do? Just ignore them?
Do we just let them throw a temper fit and keep on making a mess?
We're also finding out through research that diesel exhaust pollutants are worse for health than we though. PM2.5s are particularly bad. (sorry for the pun). It makes me wonder about wildland fire fighters and what health problems they may have as they get old. We used to cough up lots of black gunk after a day on the fire line.

See for example https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653523004484
for an overview on the health effects of PM2.5s. "a notable relationship exists between PM2.5 and the occurrence of many diseases, such as respiratory, cardiovascular, and nervous system diseases, as well as cancer."


When there's new emissions rules like this I like to look at the actual regulations instead of going on feelings. And yes sometimes I have found where it looks like they cooked some numbers to reach an inappropriate conclusion.

I can't find final Tier V regs. It looks like the proposed Tier V regs have been watered down some in the rule making process.

I did find proposed Tier V numbers. Tier IV final and proposed Tier V, from the EPA web site, posted below. For the CUT segment from 25 to 75hp it looks like a small decrease in PM, either halving NOx or a small decrease depending on if it's < 50hp or not, and a small decrease in CO. The Tier V NOx limits for 25-75hp are no where near what they are for > 75hp in Tier IV. DEF is what's usually used to reduce NOx in those engines. So from this I think that DEF won't be needed for tractors in the 25-75hp range to meet Tier V. For the 75-125hp range everything is the same from Tier IV to Tier V except they loosened NOx to above Tier IV for the initial phase of Tier V, then it goes back down to the same.

TierIV.png
TierVProposed.png
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #252  
I had assumed that the regulatory end game was to reduce the negative health consequences of all kinds of industrial processes - and particularly those processes that affect the rest of the world outside of their factory.

It would be nice if all manufacturing would clean up after themselves without having to be told to do so - that they would be responsible citizens who would clean up their own mess.
And I like to think that most do.

But just like children, there are always going to be some of them are just naturally more selfish than others. When what the selfish ones are doing begins to affect everyone else, what should the rest of society do? Just ignore them?
Do we just let them throw a temper fit and keep on making a mess?

rScotty
Do you not think that negative health consequences have been reduced over the last 60 years? How much will be enough? And what do they REALLY want?
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #253  
Past time to quit burning wood as it contributes to particulate emissions, 1000 times more than any tractor exhaust ever will...

Your comment smacks of ignorance and not much more.
There's quite a few people here and around the world that burn wood because it's either the most economical or the only way to get heat.

You might consider your own ignorance.
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #254  
Is anyone else sick and tired of being sick and tired?

If so, you know what to do. So, do it!
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #255  
Just saw this pop up in my TBN email notice and didn't read 26 pages.

I will add this if it hasn't been said already, I follow the Chinese excavator factories and they are already advertising Tier V compliance.

I thought Europe was Tier V?
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #256  
There are so many ailments that affect different sectors of the population differently that it's REALLY hard to think they KNOW the number of deaths from particulates. And then to attribute them to certain people based on income and race?
Excess deaths are up since 2020... Life Insurance companies know this, because death is their business... And nobody knows what happened in that time frame to have caused younger people to get sick and die at markedly higher rates? Nobody? Really? No one? These excess deaths continued in 2023... In younger people.

Really no one knows?

But we are certain about these numbers and the races of the people affected? Ok. Sorry. I call ******** on both.
Credibility has always been missing from the EPA.....People are fools if they think this guise of peoples health concern is at the forefront of this ever extending reach for our wallets is anything but a phony virtue signal that targets a dumbed down public. ......The EPA has close to a zero sum for the benefit of people who depend on this equipment for a living. Selling this expensive, politically promoted scam is only possible because they have the power to eliminate choices and eventually freedom itself........Pretty much an attack on America and they will not stop because serving American citizens is not on their agenda....follow the global money.

Keep an eye on the integrity of the fuel itself. As now, in my environmental "savior" state of Oregon they are forcing poor fuel down our throats with predictable results......bio fuel that is plugging up injectors and lowering efficiency..... and they are just getting started.
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #257  
Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors?

DPF exemption for <25-horsepower diesel engine tractors to expire?


EPA announces new air quality standards for particulate matter, citing health risks.​


The Environmental Protection Agency announced a new rule on Wednesday to significantly reduce the level of air pollution known as particulate matter (PM) by updating the national air-quality standards, citing negative health impacts of PM exposure.

While the rule is being praised by environmental and health groups, some industry groups have signaled that it could pose a political challenge for President Joe ***** this year as they claim it will hamper American manufacturing and eliminate jobs.

“Today's action is a critical step forward that will better protect workers, families and communities from the dangerous and costly impacts of fine particle pollution,” EPA Administrator Michael Regan told reporters.

“The science is clear, soot pollution is one of the most dangerous forms of air pollution and it's linked to a range of serious and potentially deadly illnesses, including asthma and heart attacks.”

Particulate matter is made up of microscopic solid particles such as dirt, soot or smoke and liquid droplets in the air that are small enough to be inhaled. Those small particles can get into the lungs or bloodstream and contribute to health problems like asthma, respiratory symptoms, heart attacks, or premature death in people with heart or lung problems, according to the EPA.


This type of pollution comes from a variety of sources including power plants, cars, and construction sites. Wildfire smoke is also a significant source of particulate matter pollution.
“And often that is a product of triggering heart attack, cardiopulmonary events or triggering asthma attacks that are fatal,” Simms said.

Regan said the updated standard will prevent up to 4,500 premature deaths and 290,000 lost workdays in the year 2032. On that same timeline, ***** administration officials also say the new standard will yield up to $46 billion in net health benefits.

“The impact of this pollution oftentimes disproportionately affects our most vulnerable communities, including low-income communities, communities of color, children, older adults and those who struggle with heart or lung conditions,” Regan said.

“There are both things that you can calculate numerically about what are the impacts [of PM pollution] and how many deaths and how many hospitalizations, but there also are really important kinds of impacts that are hard to quantify," he added.

The previous annual standard for particulate matter was 12 micrograms per cubic meter of air. Under this new rule, the EPA is lowering the annual standard to 9 micrograms per cubic meter.

The updated rules do not revise the 24-hour standard which is meant to account for short-term spikes in pollution. That will remain at 35 micrograms per cubic meter.
President and CEO of the American Lung Association Harold Wimmer called the update “a step forward for public health,” but noted that the standards fall short of what his organization and others called for.


“While the stronger annual particle pollution standard will mean fewer asthma attacks, heart attacks, strokes and deaths, it is disappointing that EPA did not follow the strong science-based recommendations of the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee and the health community to also revise the 24-hour standard to more fully protect public health,” Wimmer added.
Industry groups like the American Forest & Paper Association, American Wood Council and the group’s member company CEOs sent a letter to the White House in October expressing their opposition to the now finalized rule, saying the move, “threatens U.S. competitiveness and modernization projects in the U.S. paper and wood products industry and in other manufacturing sectors across our country.”

“This would severely undermine President *****’s promise to grow and reshore U.S. manufacturing jobs, and ultimately make American manufacturing less competitive,” the letter said. “It also would harm an industry that has been recognized as an important contributor to achieving the Administration’s carbon reduction goals, including in future procurement for federal buildings.”

Simms, who has worked in this space for 25 years, told ABC News these industry outcries aren’t new.

“I've been doing this work for 25 years in a variety of different capacities,” Simms said. “And I can say that every time that an agency like EPA has taken steps to protect people and to reduce pollution, I see this same playbook start to get utilized, which is ‘the sky is falling.’ ‘If we protect people this way, we're going to destroy business and we're going to undermine the economy.’ And there's really good data to show that that's just not true.”
I call bull$hit on the EPA. Chicken Little just doesn't pan out in raw numbers of under 25hp diesel engines. This will bankrupt producers/manufacturers, and outstrip practical economy of consumers. Planned obsolescence of these diesel particulate emissions systems will create additional recycling waste, and tractorscwont be worth repairing...they'll end up in a ditch, rotting behind a barn, or dumped in a lake. Brilliant, EPA, for solving the world's problems on the backs of US consumers.
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #258  
I remember back in the early '70's when US auto maker cried they couldn't meet emission standards and they would be out of business.

Low and behold Mr. Honda bought a Chevy Impala with a 350 and shipped it to Japan where his engineers redesigned the heads and easily met the emission requirements. Then he shipped it back to GM.🤣
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #259  
I certainly hope that enough people eventually realize what is going on and stamp out this madness.
No, it's expanding. Many states are watching California and CARB and are adopting their standards...

I think most of us remember how bad it was, but the catalytic converter technology (and fuel injection) has greatly reduced CO issues. What kills me is that CO2 is what most scientists are worried about, but that is something that isn't even tested for. And, it's because of cost and that the technology isn't there to deal with it.

If you really look into our 'Green' technologies, you will see that logic does not prevail (wind turbine farms, lithium battery production, rare earth material needs for EV motors, etc.). Being 'Green' is only on the table for First world nations. Other nations can't afford that luxury. If you look at the population of China and India and try to comprehend if all of these would be drivers went EV, the problems stagger the mind. Things like Thorium reactors (that actually consume radioactive waste) are not even being considered. Instead, we throw up thousands more wind turbines! :)
 
   / Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors? #260  
Don't forget MTBE being added to the fuel in California to cut down on smog. When it first came out, it caused the price of gasoline to jump because they had to reformulate how hey made gasoline.

Then it was discovered that MTBE worked its way into the water table and contaminated all the underground water so it wasn't safe to drink well water anymore.

Since it was too expensive to "NOT" put the MTBE into gasoline, they just kept on destroying the water table.

I haven't kept up on this since leaving CA in 2003. Do they still add MTBE to the gasoline there?
No, they removed MTBE, but added another tax to the fuel to 'Removed' the junk that was causing less efficiency!
 

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