Buying Advice Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors?

[LouNY]

There is no good need or reason for even stricter pollution controls, actually they should be backed off a bit at least. They should back of on the DEF issue and the DPF's the tier 3 and interim tier 4 were the last even faintly justifiable set of regulations.
The only reason for more and stricter regulations is to kill the Internal Combustion Engine, it is just part of the net zero "green" movement to force the adoption of electric or non motorized vehicles. The ones that will gain are not worried about the "people" and the need for affordable food. The elite will have theirs from imports and areas that have no concern for any pollution controls and that are struggling to just survive.

 

[jyoutz]

All I can say is I'm glad I'm 67, I feel bad for my daughter (40) and grandaughter (6).

I don’t feel the least bit deprived because I don’t drive a Model A Ford like my grandfather did. Neither will your granddaughter wish that she can do things like you did. Each generation makes their own future.

 

[rScotty]

There is no good need or reason for even stricter pollution controls, actually they should be backed off a bit at least. They should back of on the DEF issue and the DPF's the tier 3 and interim tier 4 were the last even faintly justifiable set of regulations.
The only reason for more and stricter regulations is to kill the Internal Combustion Engine, it is just part of the net zero "green" movement to force the adoption of electric or non motorized vehicles. The ones that will gain are not worried about the "people" and the need for affordable food. The elite will have theirs from imports and areas that have no concern for any pollution controls and that are struggling to just survive.

I doubt that government or regulation organizations think that far in advance. Giving more credit than is due strikes me as being the problem with most conspiracy theories.

The regulators probably just got caught up in making the air and water cleaner - and nobody has told them that it was time to stop. They should have put goals into the original legislation. Then everyone would agree.

 

[LouNY]

I doubt that government or regulation organizations think that far in advance. Giving more credit than is due strikes me as being the problem with most conspiracy theories.

The regulators probably just got caught up in making the air and water cleaner - and nobody has told them that it was time to stop. They should have put goals into the original legislation. Then everyone would agree.

That is part of the problem it is not legislative laws driving this, it is bureaucratic regulations written up and enforced by non elected bureaucrats whose main concern is strengthening there positions and expanding there so called authority

 

[5030]

Lou, that applies across the entire government today, not just the EPA. I believe at least with toaster cars, that is gonna blow back in their faces and soon.

Cramming toaster cars down the electorate's throats via mandates and government oversight will come back to haunt them. Most consumers (me included aren't interested in toaster cars) and don't want one as they are fraught with inherent issues like poor range and charging issues in cold weather plus the charging infrastructure isn't there and won't be for a long time, as well.

Them we have the upcoming issue of much cheaper Chinese toaster cars that will severely undercut all the current makers and further reduce the profit margin they are supposedly not making, though I believe that is just hyperbole. If they weren't making a profit, they wouldn't be making or selling them today. They are making profit on every one, just not as much as they'd like to make IMO.

 

[wolc123]

I grew a literal ton of potatoes for two years, all went to local food pantry. The cultivators worked great

I had cultivators for my first cub, but I was not a big fan of the offset “cultivation”. I can see where it would be nice for smaller plants and gardens though.

I can see how you would be breathing some fumes from that exhaust stack in the middle of the hood. Maybe gasoline exhaust particles were not as bad for us as diesel ones are ?

 

[rScotty]

That is part of the problem it is not legislative laws driving this, it is bureaucratic regulations written up and enforced by non elected bureaucrats whose main concern is strengthening there positions and expanding there so called authority

I could not agree more. I run into the same problem on a much smaller county & municipal level. It seems to be part of the human condition... The problem happens when we pass an ordinance or legislation trying to get something good done, and don't think far enough ahead to put limits on it.

The committee you started to pick up dog poop in the city park ends up buying sod, grass, maintenance machinery, buildings for housing the machinery, employees, their own book-keeping, a dog poop recycling center, more employees - and now they are lobbying to use the town land we were saving for a new hospital so that they can expand their employee parking lot.
Somewhere in the midst of all this, people with any sense started walking their dogs somewhere else - and so the original problem doesn't even exist anymore. Except we still have the recycling center - which now has to import dog poop from overseas to maintain their employment base,

These bureaucratic organizations are damnably hard to stop once they get going, because people get invested in them...
And it seemed like such a good idea and so simple at the time. The only thing we forgot was the limits.
rScotty

 

[deserteagle71]

That is part of the problem it is not legislative laws driving this, it is bureaucratic regulations written up and enforced by non elected bureaucrats whose main concern is strengthening there positions and expanding there so called authority

Exactly! It's all about job security! Can't just fix a problem and call it good...you have to continue the problem, expand it, so there is a need for your job!

 

[5030]

I could not agree more. I run into the same problem on a much smaller county & municipal level. It seems to be part of the human condition... The problem happens when we pass an ordinance or legislation trying to get something good done, and don't think far enough ahead to put limits on it.

The committee you started to pick up dog poop in the city park ends up buying sod, grass, maintenance machinery, buildings for housing the machinery, employees, their own book-keeping, a dog poop recycling center, more employees - and now they are lobbying to use the town land we were saving for a new hospital so that they can expand their employee parking lot.
Somewhere in the midst of all this, people with any sense started walking their dogs somewhere else - and so the original problem doesn't even exist anymore. Except we still have the recycling center - which now has to import dog poop from overseas to maintain their employment base,

These bureaucratic organizations are damnably hard to stop once they get going, because people get invested in them...
And it seemed like such a good idea and so simple at the time. The only thing we forgot was the limits.
rScotty

That also applies in spades to Washington DC today. Make new laws and ordinances when there are already existing laws and ordinances on the books that can be enforced but they don't want to. Crazy stuff.

 

[oldrustysteel]

Exactly! It's all about job security! Can't just fix a problem and call it good...you have to continue the problem, expand it, so there is a need for your job!

The govt never gives up on a bad idea.. These Agencies never make decisions that improve the working Americans way of life. Instead, we lose a little more money and a little more freedom. Ronald Regan knew this and was man enough to tell the American people how bad things are.

 

[ultrarunner]

I don’t feel the least bit deprived because I don’t drive a Model A Ford like my grandfather did. Neither will your granddaughter wish that she can do things like you did. Each generation makes their own future.

I would as my Model A is my first car and I still use it.

I have 6 Model A’s… one for each work day and I rest on the 7th.

 

[jyoutz]

I would as my Model A is my first car and I still use it.

I have 6 Model A’s… one for each work day and I rest on the 7th.

Very nice vehicles. They look restored.

 

[ultrarunner]

Very nice vehicles. They look restored.

Yep… every nut and bolt in the pickup and painted here at home…

 

[ultrarunner]

I think a day will come when tier 0-4 will be banned.

It’s already so for commercial trucks, construction equipment and things like >25 hp chippers down to gas powered brush cutters and blowers…

(California)

 

[Bearsixty7]

And then there is this news, I'm still trying to determine if real or hyped up.

BMW says goodbye to electric cars, hydrogen engines begins a new era | Klean Industries

According to a recent report from Information Trends, hydrogen engines are likely to become the future of automobile transportation. EVs have been the primary focus of zero-emissions car manufacturers, while hydrogen vehicles were relegated to the background.

kleanindustries.com

https://eightify.app/summary/automotive-industry/gm-ceo-s-shocking-warning-shift-to-hydrogen-fuel-cells-threatens-ev-makers

GM, Honda begin U.S. fuel cell production in step toward replacing diesel

Many in the automotive industry view fuel cells as a replacement for use cases for diesel fuel in things such as generators, heavy-duty trucks and semitrucks.

www.cnbc.com

 

[sd455dan]

Wonder how long the commute is for those 17,000 EPA workers in the USA and now much pollution their mode of transportation spews into the air on an annual basis?

Good Point

 

[sd455dan]

And then there is this news, I'm still trying to determine if real or hyped up.

BMW says goodbye to electric cars, hydrogen engines begins a new era | Klean Industries

According to a recent report from Information Trends, hydrogen engines are likely to become the future of automobile transportation. EVs have been the primary focus of zero-emissions car manufacturers, while hydrogen vehicles were relegated to the background.

kleanindustries.com

https://eightify.app/summary/automotive-industry/gm-ceo-s-shocking-warning-shift-to-hydrogen-fuel-cells-threatens-ev-makers

GM, Honda begin U.S. fuel cell production in step toward replacing diesel

Many in the automotive industry view fuel cells as a replacement for use cases for diesel fuel in things such as generators, heavy-duty trucks and semitrucks.

www.cnbc.com

If that is true why does it cost $150 to fuel a Mirai Toyota Hydrogen car with enough hydrogen to even drive 300 miles.

50 cents a mile to drive using hydrogen assuming the car was free.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mirai/comments/15do6mn

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I think a day will come when tier 0-4 will be banned.

It’s already so for commercial trucks, construction equipment and things like >25 hp chippers down to gas powered brush cutters and blowers…

(California)

Are you saying that California has banned the ownership of older equipment entirely? Like going yard to yard and confiscating trucks, tractors and excavators, etc?

Or just banned the sales of new equipment in those categories?

Those are drastically different things.

 

[ultrarunner]

Are you saying that California has banned the ownership of older equipment entirely? Like going yard to yard and confiscating trucks, tractors and excavators, etc?

Or just banned the sales of new equipment in those categories?

Those are drastically different things.

No ownership ban... only a ban on operating.

It is against the law for me to start my brush cutter and blower.

Over the road trucks not in compliance are banned from hauling freight out of ports.

Entire fleets of construction tractors sold off and moved out of state.

Utilities forced to dump perfectly good equipment...

My tree guy got rid of his 30 hp Bandit diesel chipper.

Generator rental companies require annual registration and operating permits for diesel units so mass exodus of non compliant.

For more than half a century older equipment was grandfathered but no more.

There are very imited exceptions...

You can obtain a one way trip permit to exit California... some emergency equipment allowed but severely restricted... as well as limited AG applications

The crane company I use repowered because a $400,000 dollar crane is worth the 30k+ to replace each diesel.

Every year I get a visit at the Hospital checking the hours logged on the Diesel Generators...

For decades we ran weekly under load testing for 30 minutes plus cool down cycle.

Now it is once a month to meet licensing... of course all must be documented and submitted along with $850 annual air permit per generator.

Buying new non compliant is no longer possible.

Companies like Honda no longer have entire product lines available ranging from mowers to generators...

Will the same spread to other areas... history indicates over time it does.

 

[LouNY]

No ownership ban... only a ban on operating.

It is against the law for me to start my brush cutter and blower.

Over the road trucks not in compliance are banned from hauling freight out of ports.

Entire fleets of construction tractors sold off and moved out of state.

Utilities forced to dump perfectly good equipment...

My tree guy got rid of his 30 hp Bandit diesel chipper.

Generator rental companies rewire registration and operating permits for diesel units so mass Exodus.

There are limited exceptions...

You can obtain a one way trip permit to exit California... some emergency equipment allowed but severely restricted... as well as limited AG applications

The crane company I use repowered because a $400,000 dollar crane is worth the 30k to replace each diesel.

Every year I get a visit at the Hospital checking the hours logged on the Diesel Generators...

For decades we ran weekly under load for 30 minutes and the a cool down cycle.

Now it is once a month to meet licensing... of course all must be documented and submitted along with $850 annual air permit per generator.

Buying new non compliant is no longer possible.

Companies like Honda no longer have entire product lines available ranging from mowers to generators...

Will the same spread to other areas... history shoes over time it does.

I certainly hope that enough people eventually realize what is going on and stamp out this madness.