Tier IV Starting Procedure - mCRD engines

[Snowback]

Just curious what you all are doing on start up for optimal longevity and performance. The manual for my 2538 HST states to turn key to the left and then start once the light goes off. (It's an oil pressure light though, not the glow plug.) :confused3:

Since the manuals seemed a little rushed when this new machine came out back in 2015, I wanted to check with some of the newer buyers who may have refined manals. I'll give J5 a call as well to confirm.

On our prior Max 25 with Mitsu engine, turning the key to the left initiated the glow plug cycle, and when the light went out, then you started it.

Now, on the new machine, the glow plug light doesn't come on until after it starts and stays on for about 30 seconds to a minute. (When it was new and before the upgraded tune was installed, the glow plug light didn't stay on at all.) With the current tune, I can turn key to the left to cycle the pressure light, and then come over half way to the right to power up the glow plug, but it does not appear to have a timer on it. I usually just crank right away like the manual states.

The machine always cranks right up and purrs like a lion cub, but I don't want to be rushing the start cycle if I'm missing something on the sequence that is not covered in the manual. I have seen one or two references to not needing the glow plugs pre heated with these new engines, but I've just grown up waiting on glow plugs before cranking diesels and it feels a little strange. I've never tried starting it in anything under about 50 degrees either, so that may be part of why the ECU does not believe it needs the plugs pre heated perhaps.

Anyone else have a different process or procedure they have learned from their dealer? Thanks in advance.

 

[rokit]

My Mahindra is an IDI engine, and I'm not an expert...but every common-rail diesel I'm aware of is started pretty much like a gasser: turn the key to crank and it fires right up.

I also think it's pretty safe to say that you can't hurt these engines with some nuance in the startup procedure. They're pretty bulletproof in that regard.

 

[buickanddeere]

How about Installing a 12V test light into the glow plug wiring harness. It would be interesting whn they are energized and for how long.
Never did any harm to use a block heater in winter .

 

[Snowback]

My Mahindra is an IDI engine, and I'm not an expert...but every common-rail diesel I'm aware of is started pretty much like a gasser: turn the key to crank and it fires right up.

I also think it's pretty safe to say that you can't hurt these engines with some nuance in the startup procedure. They're pretty bulletproof in that regard.

Agreed. Perhaps the plugs come on after ignition to help keep initial emissions down to a minimum before DOC operating temperature is achieved in first minute or so...

How about Installing a 12V test light into the glow plug wiring harness. It would be interesting whn they are energized and for how long.
Never did any harm to use a block heater in winter .

That's a good idea. If I trust the light on the dash it appears to be a fixed period of a minute or less, but popping a tester in there would clarify things for sure.

Block heaters are great, but for the diesels we ran back up north in the 70's and 80's, we would just start them in late October and let them run all winter out on location at the oilfield camps. (Day and night...) Only down time was when oil was being changed in a warm shop and out of the 40 below weather. I recall a few times having to crawl under dad's Mack and Western Star with a tiger torch to warm up the blocks and oil pans. OSHA might not like a kid with a flame thrower working under a truck nowadays...

 

[buickanddeere]

Tempory Test light would verify how honest the factory dash light is.

 

[JerryK]

My Tier IV mCRD 2016 2555 starts real easy, even without the grid heater cycle... parked in a unheated area of my barn. I still turn the key on and let the grid heater time out, then start it. The computer runs the RPM up to about 11-1200 for a little bit, then quickly down to about 800. I move my 'throttle' lever and raise the RPM up to about 1250 RPM and let it warm up like that for about five minutes. Then take it outside and run for five minutes [+/-] while I am getting ready to blow snow. Then raise the RPM up just below 2000, drive the length of my driveway, crank her wide open, and start cleaning the road and mailbox areas. I started doing it this way because I was originally setting the dreaded MIL light by turning the key from OFF to START too quick, and other fumble finger lame brained processes. Anywhilst, that's how I start mine....

 

[bluefin650]

I blew my hydro oil cooler on my 2555 early this season. luckily they covered it under warranty. So now, I leave my FEL in float while my tractor is warming up. Helps circulate the hydro oil to warm it up.

 

[dickfoster]

I blew my hydro oil cooler on my 2555 early this season. luckily they covered it under warranty. So now, I leave my FEL in float while my tractor is warming up. Helps circulate the hydro oil to warm it up.

Not quite sure how leaving the bucket in float circulates oil. If so I'd like to know how. I thought putting it in float just removes all pressure from the lift cylinders and both ends of the cylinders are directed to the low pressure tank return leaving the bucket to float with weight and gravity alone holding it down.

 

[bluefin650]

I was under the impression from my dealer that fluid is always being pumped and when you put the FEL into float, it kinda acts like a by-pass and fluid is able to circulate/move.

 

[Buxus]

Far, far, far from an expert here, but might the float the dealer was referring to (that continuously circulates) be with regard to the float vs self canceling detent on the rear remote (as opposed to the position of the FEL which can "float" over the ground).

 

[dickfoster]

I was under the impression from my dealer that fluid is always being pumped and when you put the FEL into float, it kinda acts like a by-pass and fluid is able to circulate/move.

I was under the impression that unless you're actually putting pressure on the cylinders to lift the bucket, the oil bypasses the valve and is in circulation anyway whether in float or not. The oil is trapped in the cylinders under pressure by the valve when the bucket is lifted. As liquids can't compress the bucket simply stays there. But in float all pressure is released and oil from the pump flows straight to the tank to be recirculated by the pump. So in general unless some movement and work is being done by the hydraulics, the oil is always circulating under low pressure.

 

[buickanddeere]

The open center control valve is still going to be wide open from the inlet to the outlet port when the valves are in the neutral or float position.

 

[Jabonee]

I was under the impression that unless you're actually putting pressure on the cylinders to lift the bucket, the oil bypasses the valve and is in circulation anyway whether in float or not. The oil is trapped in the cylinders under pressure by the valve when the bucket is lifted. As liquids can't compress the bucket simply stays there. But in float all pressure is released and oil from the pump flows straight to the tank to be recirculated by the pump. So in general unless some movement and work is being done by the hydraulics, the oil is always circulating under low pressure.

You Are correct,however, the porting on the lift spool allows pressure oil to pass through to the 3pt valve while in float to do work. In float the rod and base hose ports are open direct to tank hose. :thumbsup:

 

[JerryK]

I'm a pretty good electrician, can hold my own with rough carpentry/millwright work/passable welder, pipefitter, etc.... But hydraulics drives me nuttier....

 

[jmh1783]

It would be good to know if there is a better way to get the hydraulics warmed up. I use the same startup procedure JerryK does. One click to the right, wait for the grid heater light to go out, then crank it up. It's worked so far as cold as 15F. I haven't tried in anything colder. Mine also has the turn left option but I've never been quite sure how that was supposed to work. As someone else mentioned, if you do that then try to start it you are one bad tick mark closer to the MIL light coming on.

 

[buickanddeere]

Plug in the block heater instead of attempting stone cold starts

 

[rokit]

It would be good to know if there is a better way to get the hydraulics warmed up. I use the same startup procedure JerryK does. One click to the right, wait for the grid heater light to go out, then crank it up. It's worked so far as cold as 15F. I haven't tried in anything colder. Mine also has the turn left option but I've never been quite sure how that was supposed to work. As someone else mentioned, if you do that then try to start it you are one bad tick mark closer to the MIL light coming on.

Other than the block heater or a generic electric fluid heater in the reservoir, not much you can do with a stock setup to warm the hydraulics quickly.

If you wanted to get fancy and mess with the tractor a bit, you could add a heat exchanger. Old Cummins 12-valve engines which were paired with 727 transmissions in some trucks had such an arrangement: the heat exchanger ran the transmission fluid through a coil immersed in the engine coolant ahead of the intake side of the radiator. Hot engine coolant would warm up the tranny fluid. The sizing is of course critical so that you don't overheat the trans fluid after warmup is complete (or you could have a manual shutoff).

 

[mike69440]

I blew my hydro oil cooler on my 2555 early this season. luckily they covered it under warranty. So now, I leave my FEL in float while my tractor is warming up. Helps circulate the hydro oil to warm it up.

Just FYI. In Sub Zero weather the back pressure on the loader valve, Float or not is near 500 psig.

I got to put in synthetic oil, thinner at low temperatures. I swear the TSC premium stuff is like gear oil cold.

 

[Kentuckyfarmer]

Other than the block heater or a generic electric fluid heater in the reservoir, not much you can do with a stock setup to warm the hydraulics quickly.

If you wanted to get fancy and mess with the tractor a bit, you could add a heat exchanger. Old Cummins 12-valve engines which were paired with 727 transmissions in some trucks had such an arrangement: the heat exchanger ran the transmission fluid through a coil immersed in the engine coolant ahead of the intake side of the radiator. Hot engine coolant would warm up the tranny fluid. The sizing is of course critical so that you don't overheat the trans fluid after warmup is complete (or you could have a manual shutoff).

I'm pretty sure that was something dodge came up with and wasn't a cummins engineer thing. I had a 90 3/4 ton with a auto that had it. The mechanic said it was a trans cooler. Instead of the trans oil going to the radiator like Chevy did dodges big idea was to have a separate cooler and not built in the radiator. I don't know if when starting it cold if the trans fluid warmed up quicker than the coolant did just sitting warming up. Those old 1st gen cummins with the ve pumps stock couldn't get out of their own way but a little tweaking of the pump made a big difference. Had 90 some thousand on the clock and the frame under it was rotted completely out. Only thing left worth anything was the motor.

 

[RBaldwin]

I was under the impression that unless you're actually putting pressure on the cylinders to lift the bucket, the oil bypasses the valve and is in circulation anyway whether in float or not. The oil is trapped in the cylinders under pressure by the valve when the bucket is lifted. As liquids can't compress the bucket simply stays there. But in float all pressure is released and oil from the pump flows straight to the tank to be recirculated by the pump. So in general unless some movement and work is being done by the hydraulics, the oil is always circulating under low pressure.

I asked this specifically since my 4025 said to wait till glow plug warmed up. He said the new engines don't need to do this unless its below like 40 degrees. If it's warmer then that just crank it like a gas engine.