Thoughts on a Woods back hoe...

Indydirtfarmer · Jul 27, 2005

Yesterday I was approached about mowing 59 acres near the house. It belongs to an estate at the moment. The owner passed away about 6 months back. He had his own tractors and equipment. His son carted all of that off when he found out his sister was executor of the estate. She is trying to get everything back. Meanwhile, she needs the place bush hogged. This is where the back hoe comes in...

He dad had just recently bought a Woods 3-point back hoe. The son didn't feel the need to take it. It has a few hours use, but barely enough to weat the paint on the bucket. There's a 12" bucket, and what appears to be about an 18" bucket with it. (I don't know the model #... Not even sure if Woods make more than one model) The back hoe has been offered to me for 25 hours of "credit" on mowing. (@ $60 an hour, that translates to $1500) I have no clue as to the purchase price or the used value of this hoe. Any ideas? I'd like to have it. Looks to be quite handy.

OK! Let's hear the skinny on a Woods 3-point hoe!

SteveCornell · Jul 27, 2005

You better jump all over that offer, without knowing the model it's probably around a $6000 hoe (or more), you could easially get $4000 for it if you didn't have any use for it and wanted to sell it.

RobS · Jul 27, 2005

Purely financially, that's a huge deal! You'll easily pay double that for a three point hoe and even more for a subframe model.

Of course you'll have to determine if it will fit, if you need it and if you want a three point model. If you're anything like me you'll enjoy every moment at the controls. It's just about the most fun you can have with your clothes on /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dargo · Jul 27, 2005

I've probably spent more hours considering a 3 pt backhoe than I'd care to admit. I've even used several for hours that I borrowed. They definitely can do some work, but don't confuse one with a real backhoe as you know one. My take on one is for the price you mentioned, I'd be all over it. For four grand (or more) I'd pass - and have. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Grab that puppy. If you don't like it, you can sell it for more than you have in it.

Indydirtfarmer · Jul 27, 2005

Better make myself clear on one issue... I am going to jump on the deal. No way I'll pass on it. Out of pocket expenses on the mowing will be less than $150 (hauling to and from site included) That''s a fairly new back hoe for $150, and some time.... I can't say no to that. My questions are more like "What sort of hoe is this"? What are the weak points? Anyone with one?

Tom_H · Jul 27, 2005

You aren't going to like hearing this, but I wouldn't be responsible if I didn't say it.

I've had to be executor of an estate where the person who died had been incapacitated for awhile and fraud was involved while he was. This brother and sister are already at odds with each other. What he did is illegal and he could face both civil and criminal liability. Some district attornies are very aggressive in this type situation while others don't want to get involved in family matters if at all avoidable. Probate judges can also range from hard line to wishy washy.

The executor is required by law to sell property at market value, unless all heirs under the will agree in writing to waive that requirement. If she makes this barter with you for below market value, the brother has justifiable reason to sue the estate and the executor for fraud and illegal sale. A judge might simply deduct that from her inheritance, but he may actually declare the sale to be illegal and order you to return it.

This is a family feud that I personally would try hard to stay out of. Dealing with one's own family problems is enough distress without getting into the middle of someone else's. If you knew this family well and knew they were all on good terms, this would be different, but you have indicated that they are not.

It is a good price, but it has the potential to become a quagmire. If you already have a family lawyer who will give you 5 min. on the phone for little or no charge, I'd surely recommend talking to him or her. I can't tell you what to do, but like the saying goes, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." I hate to bust the bubble here, but I'd also hate to see you sucked into somebody else's war. I hate to sound pessimistic, but I just gotta' say tiptoe carefully, you're in the middle of a mine field.

MMM · Jul 27, 2005

I disagree Tom.

Indy, I'd take the hoe and have her sign invoice in case something happens like Tom stated. You could always give it back slightly used and get your pay for cutting (before giving hoe back /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

Clyde · Jul 27, 2005

Tom - your advice is definitely in the realm of realism. The brother has already walked off with the hardware and anything else he could readily carry off. Soon the sister is going to want her legal half. The only one's to profit will be the lawyers and sadly that is the American way. A legal nightmare will ensue I'm sure.

Indy, this is a great deal for you except the legalities. Look at it this way....to make this work for you in order to put it on your tractor- you'll have to make it a sub-frame mount. I would never, ever, install a 3pt BH on my tractor if only because of warranty issues after the backhoe tore off my top link from it's castings. I doubt if any tractor manufacturer warranties a 3pt BH attachment. I've seen a JD 4020 torn apart with a 3pt hookup BH. If you end up with it, either convert it to a subframe hookup or sell it. Wood's has subframes available for most of the newer imports on the market now.

Bird · Jul 27, 2005

Tom, I generally agree and won't disagree with you except as follows: /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The laws are different in different states, and wills can be written different ways. I have been the "independent executor" of an estate in Texas in the past, and my own will makes the executors "independent executors", and without going into the long drawn out legalese, those wills specifically allow the executor to buy, rent, lease, sell, barter, or dispose of any property in any manner he/she wishes.

So it just depends on the state law, and what the will says. You could certainly be right, but I know nothing of the laws in other states.

RickB · Jul 27, 2005

Hey, IDF. You may recall reading that I am not a big fan of Woods equipment. But they certainly make a decent backhoe. They used to OEM backhoes for Kubota, not sure if they still do. If you don't have a ready need for it, it should be marketable for sure. I will let you decide about the legal end of it.

MichMan · Jul 27, 2005

I have a 750 Woods Backhoe, and love it. I picked mine up for $400, which is a great deal. It is a 3pt mount, and I have had no problems with it. Make sure you're lift arms are rated for about 2,000 pounds, and always use the stabilizer pads to reduce torque on the top link...MM

KiotiJohn · Jul 28, 2005

I think you're getting the idea as to what the hoe is. Woods makes many variations on backhoes, often designed for specific tractor models. I would think this hoe is made for a pretty large tractor as most CUTs require subframe mounting to avoid ripping out the rear end of the smaller-framed machines.
Now, I know that Kubota does offer some 3pt hoes for some of their models, but most, such as my Kioti, specifically recommend against, and do not warranty the use of a 3pt. hoe.
Woods does indeed make very good backhoes. I've used several of them and have always been admiring of the construction and smooth operation. Their newer 4pt mounting system is awesome, providing really great structural rigidity and a fair change over time.
As someone else stated, no way I'd use one on my smaller tractor. The subframe model can make it dance. I couldn't imagine that stress on my hitch alone.
John

Indydirtfarmer · Jul 28, 2005

OK... I've already considered the "legal" aspects of the deal. (I recently went through an estate "battle" with a sister over my parents estate...BTDT) The brother AND the sister (who is exec. of estate, and has P.O.A.) agree on trading the hoe for "services rendered". As Kentucky law allows, they have already dispersed about 80% of the cash assets of the estate. (I'm not sure that was such a good idea, but it's not MY decision to make) Now they find themselves in the predicament of having to maintain the property until it's dealt with (sold?) They would MUCH rather trade off remaining equipment than ante up cash to cover expenses. Brother admitted yesterday that he has the 3 tractors, and much of the equipment that was left in the barns. He will be deducting their appraised value from his remaining portion of the estate. (All assets, including tractors were already appraised at one point. That was done by a local auctioneer who is "up" on the values of the equipment) The hoe was appraised at $3750 (used) They know what it's potentially worth, but only want to get the value of mowing for the remainder of this summer.

IF... the property remains in their hands NEXT summer, there is a low-houred Case 350 'dozer still in the barn. They have already offered that as trade for ONE YEARS mowing services. ( Less than 500 hours, hydraulic tilt/angle blade, logging winch on rear, full R.O.P.S.. Sure like to have THAT TOO!)

I'll get "everything in writing", and have both concerned parties sign off on the trade.

(It looks like the property will become a sub-division in short order. Offer on the table from 3 different developers, far in excess of estimated value of property. Land was bought in 1960 for $31,000. Top offer currently at $2,175,000. )

GeneD14 · Jul 28, 2005

( IF... the property remains in their hands NEXT summer, there is a low-houred Case 350 'dozer still in the barn. They have already offered that as trade for ONE YEARS mowing services. ( Less than 500 hours, hydraulic tilt/angle blade, logging winch on rear, full R.O.P.S.. Sure like to have THAT TOO!)
)

I need to get in the unsettled estate mowing business!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Clyde · Jul 28, 2005

Indy - Congratulations on landing one heck of a good deal. You are getting and excellent Wood's backhoe and possibly a Case dozer if the property doesn't sell. It sounds as if the brother is rethinking his greed and hopefully the two can get on with life. It also appears that you have all of your bases covered as far as the legalities. Best of luck to you with your new "toys".

Clyde

Tom_H · Jul 28, 2005

( OK... I've already considered the "legal" aspects of the deal. I'll get "everything in writing", and have both concerned parties sign off on the trade.)

Excellent!

kensfarm · Jul 28, 2005

All the neighbors are going to be wondering why you're smiling so much! Does the brother currently farm? Maybe he knows how well his Dad took care of the equipment(barn stored).. that's why he snatched it up.

Any of those 59 acres worth haying?

Indydirtfarmer · Jul 28, 2005

( All the neighbors are going to be wondering why you're smiling so much! Does the brother currently farm? Maybe he knows how well his Dad took care of the equipment(barn stored).. that's why he snatched it up.

Any of those 59 acres worth haying? )

The brother owns a small construction company. He lives on 3-1/2 acres. He impressed me as the type that wouldn't dream of getting dirty. I don't know what he plans on doing with "dads tractors".

And as far as "hay ground"? I mowed 25 acres of it earlier this evening. (Orchard grass/alfalfa mix)

Indydirtfarmer · Jul 30, 2005

(

Indy, I'd take the hoe and have her sign invoice in case something happens like Tom stated. You could always give it back slightly used and get your pay for cutting (before giving hoe back /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). )

Hoe Hoe Hoe, MERRY CHRISTMAS.... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Well, I'm now the proud owner of a Woods model 750 back hoe. We finalized the deal this morning. There was some last minute bargaining from both sides. I gave a little, and I got a little in return.

I get the hoe, with a "bill of sale" signed by the owner/executor of estate/P.O.E. and her brother. (The only other heir involved) It was drawn up by their attorney. It lists several items. (1.) The Woods #750 hoe, (2.) A (VERY well built) home-made log splitter, (3.) the Case 350 'dozer, (4) A Miller wire-feed mig welder, (4.) New Holland 273 baler and #256 Roll-a-bar hay rake. (5.) Danhueser (sp?) PTO post hole digger, with 6",9",12" , and 18" augers.

I agree to maintain the property at $60 per hour, until $4500 worth of services performed. (I've done almost $2500 already this summer, for which I've already been paid) This SHOULD cover all work until the end of next summer.

I'll sell the baler, PHD,log splitter, and welder. I'll keep the rake, the 'dozer, and the back hoe.

I'm figuring after expenses, and after selling baler/welder/PHD, I should have less than $500 out of pocket.

I'm happy, they're happy, we're all happy! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif