thinking about renting a dozer.....

[JimMorrissey]

I've got to move some dirt around my property and need to do some general cut and fill....nothing too fancy (+/- 6" is fine). It won't be too big and the work will not be very particular. Mainly I'll be backfilling a retaining wall and moving the spoil from a foundation to fill that area....digging up and moving some native sod from a field. I'll have to move the earth about 500 ft.

Wondering what kind of learning curve there is with a dozer for basic usable skills....are we talking about a few hours or many weeks of use to get somewhat proficient? -I've rented excavators before and own a backhoe, so I'm generally familiar with equipment and enjoy using it. This is a perfect excuse to get to use a dozer, but if it's going to be too challenging I'll hire it out.

 

[Highbeam]

It can take a very long time to get good at making a smooth finished surface without the rollercoasters. It takes about 3 minutes to figure out how to push a blade of dirt. So long as you have another machine to smooth out the humps and to do some fine work then a dozer is a great tool for a beginner to get the big stuff done. 500 feet is quite a ways to go and generally 300 feet is the maximum productive push length for efficiency. 500 feet is getting into excavator and truck territory but with a rental machine you won't be afraid to use high track speeds so maybe it'll be fine. Be sure to figure out the float feature on the dozer blade as this feature while going backwards turns a bad grader into a decent one.

I would do it.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Thanks....That's about what I figured. You give me a bit a confidence. It's fun to watch somebody who's good with a dozer work and you can see that the learning curve is quite steep; you're not just digging a trench.

On second thought 500' is a bit of a stretch. It more likely somewhere in the 275-350' range. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[northmiss]

I would strongly support your desire to rent one. The new hydrostatic machines are very easy to control with their joysticks. One of the first things I practiced was "backdragging" or using the blade float function which can erase a lot of errors. Even if you do only a fair job you'll likely feel the experience and learning was worth it. Very few machines out there have the broad applicability of the dozer, and everyone ought to have a little seat time in one! Before I bought a dozer I'd had only 20 - 30 hours of experience using one my dad had. This proved enough to make a decent decision. The new machines are remarkably user friendly.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Now that's what I want to hear. Thanks North.

You should fill out more of your bio so we know a bit more about you. Maybe you want it that way /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

The only thing I'd add to what you've been told is to keep the dirt in a slot.

When moving dirt with a dozer, it will spill out the sides of the blade. If you move the dirt along the same path every time, you will create a slot that holds the dirt in on the sides.

What are you renting and how much is it costing you?

Eddie

 

[JimMorrissey]

Eddie,

I'll likely end up with a Dresser TD7 (16K lbs) or a D3 Cat (16K lbs). They have blades on them about 95" x 32". Both of these are available by the day for $250-275, or by the week for $800-900. They're not perfect, but they'll do the job.

Thanks for the tip about the slot, makes good sense.

 

[JJT]

How many yards of material do you need to move. A good sized loader may make more sense.

 

[Dargo]

I have well over 10,000 hours on several different types of dozers and I would really question renting a dozer if you are wanting to move dirt 500 feet. Pushing dirt is a very inefficient way of moving it. With many years of experience, I disagree in a big way that you can even efficiently move dirt 300 feet. Anyone who thinks that does not have much experience on a machine. If you have much dirt to move, you'd be much better off renting a high lift dozer and a dump truck. With a tandem axle dump, you can move about 10 yards or so each trip. It will take you several hours to push that amount of dirt 500 feet.

I have not seen what you are wanting to do, but if it involves moving much dirt that distance, a dozer with a 6 way blade is the wrong tool. Heck, with a decent sized tractor like a NH 450 (450 hp) pulling a pan, I can move 18 to 20 yards 500 feet every 4 minutes. It would take the size dozer you are talking about about 4 hours to do that.

 

[Highbeam]

Yep, there are ceratinly more efficient ways to move lots of dirt a long ways. After 300 feet (or so for crying out loud) you will notice that chasing your tail feeling. Efficiency is a relative thing and if you could always have the right tool for the job then you could always be as efficient as possible.

I wonder what one of those big ol' scrapers rents for? That would be super fun to try out.

 

[MadReferee]

I agree with Dargo. Get a high lift crawler loader. Better yet, get one with a 4 in 1 bucket then you have the best of both worlds.

I picked this one up to clear land and move dirt. Works quite well and can be had for around $5000 when you can find them.

Buy one, do the work yourself, then sell it for what you paid for it.

 

[JimMorrissey]

**I looked at the land today and got out the plans. Looks like I can work from the short end and push down about 220'. Some of the piles from the foundation will be half of that, so the dozer is looking better and better. I do agree that a large blade full of dirt pushed 500' would be a bit light when I reached the end of the line.

Anyway, I don't have a 450hp tractor with a pan. I do have all weekend to move the dirt and level the land a bit, and I do have access to a relatively cheap rental dozer AND I'm looking forward to using one. If I could move that much dirt in 4 hours I'd be more than pleased. The land slopes gently and consists mainly of topsoil. Maybe I'll look for a larger machine with a more cup like blade, instead of a simple curved blade. I don't know about where you come from but they don't rent tandems. Also, it would sink up to its axles in the dirt on this property loaded or not.

I watched my neighbor level our last buiding project with a small/medium sized Dresser with ease. It was just under 300 feet at the longest point. Was it the absolute most efficient way to do the job, probably not, but that's what he had and at the end of one day the job was done and I was happy with the results.

I'll post some pics of the situation when the time comes.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Yeah a huge scraper would be a blast, but that's not in the cards.

I have more to do than just "move dirt". Certainly that will be a big part of it, but I'll be pushing dirt here and there for a variety of distances. That wasn't what my post was about. My question was....well, if anybody is interested in the original question it's avaiable for to read before they reply.

Thanks for all the responses. I'm all set.

 

[BarryinMN]

Your going to have a blast nothing like a dozer to change the face of your property.

Might consider cutting the topsoil first & pushing off to side then moving the subsoil where it needs to go.

Don't limit your ideas -- how about road improvements breaking trails, parking areas, etc?? Fill the weekend!

My dozer has a 1 yard 6 way blade but if a pile has sat awhile & is firm it will push 3-4 yards before losing traction.

Pix of a little yard ornament dug up by tlb.

 

[BarryinMN]

Front view est weight around 5-7000 lbs.

 

[JimMorrissey]

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Thanks for the pics Barry. Wish I owned one. Renting for the weekend will be fun.

 

[dent8]

Hi BarryinMN, I've been reading around here a while, you've roped me in, and my first question is kind of tacky, but about how much do you value your dozer at? My family recently bought a property including an old IH 3444 and the seller also has a dozer much like yours he'd be happy to sell us. His starting point is 7k. A little high? There are not that many projects where I anticipate major changes to the face of the property and I think those could mostly be done a little less efficiently with the loader/scraper, but it sure is a sweet little dozer.
Thank you to everyone here for all the info I've already culled, nice group, nice site.
Dennis

 

[MadReferee]

If you want to know anything about the IH go to the Red Power IH crawler board. Those guys know everything there is to know about IH crawlers and they are friendly to boot.

Red Power IH Crawler forum

 

[BarryinMN]

I bought mine from a farmer as well. Be sure you get all spares, extras and miscellaneous stuff he took off it.

Gave $10k for mine refurbished including a QT #93 backhoe 36" bucket, extra power reverser, engine, radiator, large loader cylinders, boxes of bearings gaskets etc.

It makes a excellent stable platform plowing on sidehills, chain a tree to drawbar before cutting.

I had never operated a crawler before buying it, 2-3 mins around the sellers yard. He drove it up on my trailer.

Got it home drove off the trailer, dropped the hoe & spent the next several hours in the woods re-opening a trail in my woods overgrown with saplings.

The bracket over the dozer seat in pix is the bh seat frame flipped up.

There are web sites by brand for crawlers to get machine specifics & values.

ytmag.com - crawlers
jdcrawlers.com
(somewhere)acmog.org cat group good for operating techniques advice

Fun to send a new kid over to check the tire pressure on the dozer once /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[dent8]

Ah, didn't see the backhoe, so I guess he's in the neighborhood though it appears well worn. Thanks for the info, I'll be around with more questions on the tractor later.
Thanks,
Dennis