Thinking about a Mini-X ... ?

[Shawn T. W.]

I'm contemplating maybe getting a used mini-X … will not consider a chinese model … here I've found a few in my proposed price range … and weight range …

Deere 17D weighs 4173 Lbs
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing/for-sale/254776369/2013-deere-17d-mini-excavators

Bobcat 325 weighs 6145
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing/for-sale/252517949/2003-bobcat-325-mini-excavators

Bobcat E20 weighs 4167 Lbs
Pardon Our Interruption

Ideally something halfway between these two basic weights would be great!

I currently have a SCUT TLB which I have about $8K into the BH part of it, including modifications and accessories, which would not be used much anymore … which is hard for me to justify, but I do understand I believe the benefits of a mini-X over a backhoe, as in a bit more reach/depth in the same weight rating, and obviously a lot larger choice of areas to put the spoils … but it seems to me that the weight of either machine usually is the limiting factor on these little machines is what ultimately limits the digging force/power … right?

My TLB with the way I have it setup is about 3300 Lbs, and it will sometimes still get pulled a little around … if I'm gonna buy another dirt digger I'd like to go a tad heavier … my trailer is limited to 5000 Lbs on it, but some of the weight goes on my truck, I have a weight distribution hitch so probably a one time move with the Bobcat 325 weight would be OK, but I'd not want to do it on a regular basis.

While I do have a manual thumb on my TLB, I'm not sure if I really need one on the mini, but curious if what I'm seeing on them is the hydraulic connection for one? Seems like a single line, what's it for?

Are there particular areas I'd need to check out for wear, tracks? Sprockets? (or whatever they are called)

My TLB is rated at ...
Dipper 2476 Lbs
Boom 1748 Lbs
Depth 78”
Hydraulic GPM - 6.8

Just how much better would one of the above mini's be over my TLB in actually digging work ... I have kinda rocky ground.

 

[4570Man]

An excavator that size will dig circles around your current backhoe. You definitely want a hydraulic thumb. The bobcat actually does appear to have 2 aux ports together but it’s common for excavators to run one line on each side of the boom.

 

[D&D]

I'm contemplating maybe getting a used mini-X … will not consider a chinese model … here I've found a few in my proposed price range … and weight range …

Deere 17D weighs 4173 Lbs
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing/for-sale/254776369/2013-deere-17d-mini-excavators

Bobcat 325 weighs 6145
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing/for-sale/252517949/2003-bobcat-325-mini-excavators

Bobcat E20 weighs 4167 Lbs
Pardon Our Interruption

Ideally something halfway between these two basic weights would be great!

I currently have a SCUT TLB which I have about $8K into the BH part of it, including modifications and accessories, which would not be used much anymore … which is hard for me to justify, but I do understand I believe the benefits of a mini-X over a backhoe, as in a bit more reach/depth in the same weight rating, and obviously a lot larger choice of areas to put the spoils … but it seems to me that the weight of either machine usually is the limiting factor on these little machines is what ultimately limits the digging force/power … right?

View attachment 5547778

View attachment 5547780

My TLB with the way I have it setup is about 3300 Lbs, and it will sometimes still get pulled a little around … if I'm gonna buy another dirt digger I'd like to go a tad heavier … my trailer is limited to 5000 Lbs on it, but some of the weight goes on my truck, I have a weight distribution hitch so probably a one time move with the Bobcat 325 weight would be OK, but I'd not want to do it on a regular basis.

While I do have a manual thumb on my TLB, I'm not sure if I really need one on the mini, but curious if what I'm seeing on them is the hydraulic connection for one? Seems like a single line, what's it for?

View attachment 5547776

View attachment 5547777

Are there particular areas I'd need to check out for wear, tracks? Sprockets? (or whatever they are called)

My TLB is rated at ...
Dipper 2476 Lbs
Boom 1748 Lbs
Depth 78”
Hydraulic GPM - 6.8

Just how much better would one of the above mini's be over my TLB in actually digging work ... I have kinda rocky ground.

Both machines appear to have 2 hydraulic ports. On the Deere it’s on the other side of the dipper. Thumb, hammer, plate compactor, tilt bucket, etc.
Typically, an excavator would have better hydraulic pumps and pilot controls which allows for combining movements and much faster cycle times. For trenching work, the ex can’t be beat (well, a trencher would) Repositioning is easier, no outriggers or reaching across consoles to raise the bucket or push the fwd/reverse pedal (yes, I know that doesn’t apply to the bigger tlb’s)
Mini -ex’s aren’t great for backfilling trenches and really suck at moving material around on a job site. They are typically very slow movers too (JD 17D high speed is 2.7mph)

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Mini -ex’s aren’t great for backfilling trenches and really suck at moving material around on a job site. They are typically very slow movers too (JD 17D high speed is 2.7mph)

Thank you, I plan on keeping my TLB, this would just be an additional machine ... So I can easily backfill or haul away the spoils ...

So ... Would it be fair to say that a TLB and Mini-X would have the same digging power, if they were the same weight, (weight is the anchor the bucket pulls against?) but the Mini-X has much faster hydraulic flow, so can not only cycle faster, but can combine actions better?

Is it possible to add weight to a Mini-X like I can to a tractor?

My TLB can actually do three things at once, but very slowly!

 

[HawkinsHollow]

DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!

 

[D&D]

Hmm, I have a feeling that your reference to digging power is a little different than mine.
Dragging a machine around while digging, is usually, preventable. Proper positioning and bucket control are big contributors. On a tlb, you want the outriggers down to support the hoe movements, the tires should be touching the ground (adds stability) Stick at ~45 degrees, bucket teeth down, add some boom down to ever so slightly raise the rear tires. Digging to no more than the depth of the teeth, pull in the dipper. The teeth and side cutters do the actual digging. The bucket is used to scoop out the loose spoils.
Same technique with an ex, except the tires and outriggers, you would lift the blade/tracks slightly to add weight.
This is very similar to using a hand shovel. If you take smaller bites, scraping away the layers it works much better than jumping on the shovel to the hilt and trying to move a full scoop.

 

[4570Man]

Both machines appear to have 2 hydraulic ports. On the Deere it’s on the other side of the dipper. Thumb, hammer, plate compactor, tilt bucket, etc.
Typically, an excavator would have better hydraulic pumps and pilot controls which allows for combining movements and much faster cycle times. For trenching work, the ex can’t be beat (well, a trencher would) Repositioning is easier, no outriggers or reaching across consoles to raise the bucket or push the fwd/reverse pedal (yes, I know that doesn’t apply to the bigger tlb’s)
Mini -ex’s aren’t great for backfilling trenches and really suck at moving material around on a job site. They are typically very slow movers too (JD 17D high speed is 2.7mph)

I usually put my 3ft bucket on and drive parallel to the ditch with the tracks about 4 feet from the ditch. Then I reach over the ditch and pull the dirt back in. It works pretty fast that way. The speed on a mini isn’t as big of a deal as people act as. Maybe if you had a hundred acres and constantly wanted to work on the opposite side it would be annoying but the travel speed generally isn’t that big of a deal.

 

[4570Man]

Thank you, I plan on keeping my TLB, this would just be an additional machine ... So I can easily backfill or haul away the spoils ...

So ... Would it be fair to say that a TLB and Mini-X would have the same digging power, if they were the same weight, (weight is the anchor the bucket pulls against?) but the Mini-X has much faster hydraulic flow, so can not only cycle faster, but can combine actions better?

Is it possible to add weight to a Mini-X like I can to a tractor?

My TLB can actually do three things at once, but very slowly!

A mini x that’s the same weight will do double the work a backhoe will. When you’re comparing a quite a bit bigger excavator like that 6000 pound bobcat against your tractor the performance difference is even more significant.

 

[dieselscout80]

I would think any of those three would out dig your GC TLB setup.

About the only thing the GC TLB will do better is move from one location to another quickly as the mini excavators are very slow even in high range.

I would say I’ve hauled a 325 bobcat and I would not want to do it with a 1/2 ton.

 

[Carl_NH]

The bucket digging force on the 17G is 3600Lbs and it weighs 3800Lbs, and the Bobcat e20 states a 4300Lb weight machine with 4600Lb digging force - so the e20 has more power and weight.

The other one thats comparable to the JD 17G is the Kubota U17 very close to the same specs too. You could consider the Kubota U27 which is a 5800lb machine - similar to the Bobcat 325 or newer E26 bobcat.

 

[caver]

I had a subframe 6.5' backhoe on my first Kioti LB1914. The hydraulic were strong but the lack of weight in the tractor I ended up tossing the tractor around on rocks and stumps. I traded for a bigger Kioti and found a Case 580K that was ,like night and day. At the time I passed on a lightly used Kubota Mini X KX123 and kick myself later as prices, not long after started, going through the roof.

 

[4570Man]

I sold my M59 not long after this. The nearly equal sized Kx-040-4 does way more work.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Typically, an excavator would have better hydraulic pumps and pilot controls which allows for combining movements and much faster cycle times.

What are "pilot controls"?

I've read that some machines have the choice of excavator or backhoe control, and that at a flip of a switch or valve it's somehow a different use of the controls? How does that work?

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Hmm, I have a feeling that your reference to digging power is a little different than mine.

I never had any instructions on bh use, I did read the manual but most things like you mentioned were not discussed ...

I mostly just "went for broke" ... biggest bite I could get!

Since I have more weight on it via steel wheel weights, it seems to stay put better, but maybe I'm just getting more experienced?

But my usual setup is slightly raise the four tires off the ground ... Since it has such a short reach, I try to get as much out of it as possible, and it does tend to "pull me" more when extended all the way and I try to curl the bucket in ...

I do also have the habit, for better or worse (right or wrong!) to rely on the bypass valve to tell me to back off and "try again another way"!

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Thumb, hammer, plate compactor, tilt bucket, etc.

Would something this size also be able to run a "jackhammer" to bust up "rocks"?

One of the projects I want to continue with is my creek expansion https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/just-little-bites.604057/ ... One of the biggest limitations is the "bedrock" which is only about 2' below the waterline now ... My plan would be to back away from the creek bank 5' or so, dig out to the bedrock, then bust it up and remove as much as possible, hopefully gain a few more feet (no idea how thick it is?) then dig out the 5' birm to the creek and let it fill up, giving both me and the fish more water!

When the creek was dry, I was able to bust up some of this "bedrock" which appears to be some kind of sand stone ... And I could scrape it up some in some places with the bucket teeth . . .

I did order some "tiger teeth" that I was going to modify my BH bucket to take them, to help digging in the rocky ground, and hopefully scrape up more of this bedrock ... They are CAT J200 size for an excavator, I have everything thing I need to add them to my two buckets, except the time ... So maybe I'll just save them for the Mini-X.

 

[4570Man]

Would something this size also be able to run a "jackhammer" to bust up "rocks"?

One of the projects I want to continue with is my creek expansion https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/just-little-bites.604057/ ... One of the biggest limitations is the "bedrock" which is only about 2' below the waterline now ... My plan would be to back away from the creek bank 5' or so, dig out to the bedrock, then bust it up and remove as much as possible, hopefully gain a few more feet (no idea how thick it is?) then dig out the 5' birm to the creek and let it fill up, giving both me and the fish more water!

When the creek was dry, I was able to bust up some of this "bedrock" which appears to be some kind of sand stone ... And I could scrape it up some in some places with the bucket teeth . . .

View attachment 5564644

View attachment 5564645

I did order some "tiger teeth" that I was going to modify my BH bucket to take them, to help digging in the rocky ground, and hopefully scrape up more of this bedrock ... They are CAT J200 size for an excavator, I have everything thing I need to add them to my two buckets, except the time ... So maybe I'll just save them for the Mini-X.


View attachment 5564647

When it comes to jackhammers bigger is better but they do make them for those small excavators.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Gotta be better than what I got!

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

will not consider a chinese model

Whatsamatter? Don't you like kits?

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Whatsamatter? Don't you like kits?

Nope!

Nor do I want to send china ANY money if at all possible! Unfortunately there are a few things that surprised even me!

John Deere filters, Massey Ferguson filters too, some (not all) are made in china!

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

Okay, but I think you would really enjoy redoing all those fasteners and modifying the floor and sheet metal. What I like best is when something fails in the middle of a job.