Thermostart operation?

winston1 · Feb 12, 2014

45 seconds sure goes against Yanmars instructions. Doesn't mean it's not right. I agree ambient temperature is a big factor but if you have to hold it 45 seconds before it ignites I have to wonder if your element might be bad. :confused3:

Scotty Dive · Feb 12, 2014

I have nothing to compare it to, but my element sure looked fine when it glowed red at the 10 second mark. If you think about the old cigarette lighters in cars it took at least that long for them to glow red on 12V. Anyway, the heat from the thermostart then has to warm the valve allowing fuel to drip down and onto the coil - that took another 10 seconds. The colder it is outside the longer that has to take. If I had only done it for 10 -15 seconds - I would not be benefiting at all from the TS I would think. Maybe other members can do the same experiment and record the time and temperature. I will do another one soon when the engine is ice cold too.

diesel lover · Feb 12, 2014

Scotty Dive said:
I have nothing to compare it to, but my element sure looked fine when it glowed red at the 10 second mark. If you think about the old cigarette lighters in cars it took at least that long for them to glow red on 12V. Anyway, the heat from the thermostart then has to warm the valve allowing fuel to drip down and onto the coil - that took another 10 seconds. The colder it is outside the longer that has to take. If I had only done it for 10 -15 seconds - I would not be benefiting at all from the TS I would think. Maybe other members can do the same experiment and record the time and temperature. I will do another one soon when the engine is ice cold too.

For right now continue to use it for the 30 second to 45 second mark. I would order a new thermostart and replace it as preventive maintenance when ever you can do it and when ever it warms up as long as it won't put you into a bind.

They are so easy to replace. I would not only replace it but make sure to test it as well if possible.

diesel lover · Feb 12, 2014

Edit: that is test it while it's out if the intake manifold if possible. It really should ignite pretty fast. I have the same issue mine takes a long time and sometimes does not ignite.

http://youtu.be/wlFettLu11Q
Very beneficial video to thermostarts

Scotty Dive · Feb 12, 2014

Great video. It looks like yours was glowing really red at the 7 second mark and ignited the fuel almost immediately afterwards. Mine had to warm up that valve first before fuel will flow maybe I have a sticky valve.

Winmac · Feb 12, 2014

Here's what can happen if its held on to long or engine fails to start with flame burning.

This is a secondary filter for a 236 Perkins, the inner fabric is all melted.

diesel lover · Feb 12, 2014

Scotty Dive said:
Great video. It looks like yours was glowing really red at the 7 second mark and ignited the fuel almost immediately afterwards. Mine had to warm up that valve first before fuel will flow maybe I have a sticky valve.

http://youtu.be/_XIORB_qUp8

That's actually my tractor in the link above. I have never removed my thermostart as I live in Indiana and the tractor is in Michigan.

I counted and in 30 degs I held the thermostart for 15 to 20 seconds. I really think yours may be worn out and needs replacement as it may not be getting fuel due to a sticking valve

Scotty Dive · Feb 12, 2014

I think I will remove mine at some point and clean her out but I did try it again and video'd it for you all. I think it is working just fine - do you agree? Couple things to know about the video:
- as soon as I start the video is when the TS switch was turned on
- the initial smoke is (I believe) left over diesel from the last burn.
- at about 8-9 seconds its really glowing
- at 20 seconds there is flame.

Yanmar thermostart at 27°F - YouTube

Ginormous · Feb 12, 2014

Scotty -- doesn't look like you have any trouble with your valve! The flame at the end looks continuous. I didn't open mine up so I could see in, but there was a distinct "huff" noise every few seconds from what I assume is a fuel drip igniting.

G

winston1 · Feb 12, 2014

Thanks to all of you for sharing your videos. Don't know how the ambient temperature affects ignition if at all. Sure would be nice if we all had some way to know when our valves ignite. My hearing is so bad I can't hear the poof ya'all are talking about. I have just turned mine on and felt the intake area counting seconds and know it takes 15 or 20 seconds to feel waming.

Scotty Dive · Feb 12, 2014

winston1 said:
Thanks to all of you for sharing your videos. Don't know how the ambient temperature affects ignition if at all. Sure would be nice if we all had some way to know when our valves ignite. My hearing is so bad I can't hear the poof ya'all are talking about. I have just turned mine on and felt the intake area counting seconds and know it takes 15 or 20 seconds to feel waming.

Sometimes I hear the poof, but most times I don't. And your comment of knowing when the valve has opened is the reason I wanted to install the Red TS light - with the assumption it lights or goes off when its ignited. In any event - now I know for sure that 20 seconds and I have fire in the intake. Now if I could only get that plug out of the block I could install a block heater.

diesel lover · Feb 14, 2014

Scotty Dive said:
Sometimes I hear the poof, but most times I don't. And your comment of knowing when the valve has opened is the reason I wanted to install the Red TS light - with the assumption it lights or goes off when its ignited. In any event - now I know for sure that 20 seconds and I have fire in the intake. Now if I could only get that plug out of the block I could install a block heater.

So you have tried removing a freeze plug to install a block heater? They can be tricky at times. If you have an air forced torpedo heater/ salamander these can help you start your tractor easier till you install a freeze plug block heater. The best time to do a freeze plug is in a warm garage or in the middle of the summer lol!!!

Good luck glad you checked out your thermostart !

Winmac · Feb 14, 2014

Scotty Dive said:
And your comment of knowing when the valve has opened is the reason I wanted to install the Red TS light - with the assumption it lights or goes off when its ignited.

There is no way to do this easily because there is no electrical feed back from the thermostart to control a light.
The only way i see it could be done is with photo cell inside the intake manifold and circuitry to switch a light when flame is present.

Scotty Dive · Feb 14, 2014

its not a freeze plug, but a actual screwed in square keyed (sticking out) plug. I can't for the life of me get anything on it to really bite and move it. When it warms up again outside I will give it a shot. I am thinking of welding up my own socket and see if I can get it out that way. Always looking for some advice. So far I all I have ended up doing is to start rounding the corners

diesel lover · Feb 14, 2014

Scotty Dive said:
its not a freeze plug, but a actual screwed in square keyed (sticking out) plug. I can't for the life of me get anything on it to really bite and move it. When it warms up again outside I will give it a shot. I am thinking of welding up my own socket and see if I can get it out that way. Always looking for some advice. So far I all I have ended up doing is to start rounding the corners http://s139.photobucket.com/user/di...2020D/Yanmar 2020D - Public/IMAG0609.jpg.html

I have seen these in some engine blocks!! Especially big trucks. I cannot view the photo.

Is it like a check plug for a differential?? Tell you what the test thing I ever did to get a check plug out of a differential; it was a 3/8 square designed for a ratchet to fit, it was well rounded. I ground down a 5/16 bolt at the tip and up an inch and welded the bolt inside the check plug. Then I put a half inch wrench on the plug and it turned right out of there!! There are several ways around this issue. Good luck!

It may be just like you said better to wait for warmer weather. Is it an eternal square or internal ?

Pete Judd · Feb 15, 2014

For for the first time, heard a Poof at around 40 seconds with the TS on. Pulled the decomp lever and cranked until the oil light went out, battery was very low 20F then turned the TS on, heard the poof, spun again and started right up.

winston1 · Feb 15, 2014

Seems strange such a wide range of timing on our valves. I pulled my air cleaner hose off just now and with ambient temperature in the mid 30s mine ignited at about 11 seconds.

California · Feb 15, 2014

My experience is around 12~15 seconds to ignite most of the time, occasionally longer.

Maybe the volatility of the fuel is a factor, related to additives we put in?

The picture on Hoyetractor labelled 'thick smoke' is fuel vapor that hadn't ignited yet.

Ginormous · Feb 16, 2014

winston1 said:
Seems strange such a wide range of timing on our valves. I pulled my air cleaner hose off just now and with ambient temperature in the mid 30s mine ignited at about 11 seconds.

I think someone else already said this... My guess is that the biggest difference in time to ignition is how long it takes for the fuel valve to open, which will increase as the outside temperature decreases. There is likely some variability in how easily these valves open as well. The plug itself probably heats up about the same in all cases, just like a cigarette lighter.

normde2001 · Feb 17, 2014

Scotty Dive said:
its not a freeze plug, but a actual screwed in square keyed (sticking out) plug. I can't for the life of me get anything on it to really bite and move it. When it warms up again outside I will give it a shot. I am thinking of welding up my own socket and see if I can get it out that way. Always looking for some advice. So far I all I have ended up doing is to start rounding the corners

A pipe wrench or Vise-Grip and a 2' length of pipe Will get it out.