The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

[IslandTractor]

I think EA is going to have to look at something other than HP when deciding which implement to recommend. I understand the fear, but the reality is that half a ton hanging off the end of my loader BEFORE I grab anything is just too much. If I didn't already have 1800lbs of juice in my tires, I don't think I could use it at all. My tractor is just too light, regardless of the HP. I should have purchased the heavy duty Wicked of the same size and saved almost half the initial weight. Ted/Travis... I really think you should look into this issue.

I've been arguing with EA about this for years. Bottom line seems to be if the customer is excited to pay for the bigger and "badder" extreme grapple then EA is willing to upsell. The real truth is that nobody in the industry has really tested CUTs on grapple size. To be fair EA has done much more than most but they still consistently exaggerate recommended grapple size to customers. Customers for grapples rarely have operated their CUT with a grapple before purchase so have no clue what width size is either most useful or what weight category is strong enough. The "correct" answer IMO is almost always narrower and lighter duty than what gets sold. My $500, 300lb, 48" single lid grapple has lasted eleven years now, eight of those years on a Kioti DK40se with 2700+lbs of lift and 5000-6000lbs of mass. Why would even a 600lb grapple costing 2500 bucks make any sense for ANY CUT under utility tractor size???

 

[EverythingAttachments]

We do not upsell. We do not get paid commission.
If a customer has a 100hp, 10,000+ pound tractor when ballasted, I wouldn't rely on him to test our 75hp rated grapple on it because it would be even uglier if he ended up with a broken grapple.

Now, if we recommend the heavy grapple for a 4066R, NX6010, L6060, MX5800....even an M7040 and similar....
Yes, then call us crazy.

I honestly try to make my best recommendation based on weight and HP, not HP alone.
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

With that being said, I do not remember the conversation during the ordering process exactly concerning the 5101E, but I generally recommend the smaller 66" when putting one on a tractor like that.
He ended up with a 78", which is 100 pounds heavier than a 66".
Travis

 

[ishiboo]

I think EA is going to have to look at something other than HP when deciding which implement to recommend. I understand the fear, but the reality is that half a ton hanging off the end of my loader BEFORE I grab anything is just too much. If I didn't already have 1800lbs of juice in my tires, I don't think I could use it at all. My tractor is just too light, regardless of the HP.

I should have purchased the heavy duty Wicked of the same size and saved almost half the initial weight.

Ted/Travis... I really think you should look into this issue.

Part of it's because the JD model numbers are so confusing. 5045 = 45HP, 5100 = 100HP. Who knew!

Seems to be a trend towards higher PTO HPs in the same frame size tractor, as well as the basic fact that maximum lift capabilities on the CUTs are very different than operating capacities on a skid loader. NX is a perfect example of that... 45HP and 60HP are the exact same tractor with the exact same loader capabilities. And while it's plenty stout at 60HP, if that's what sized the grapple I'd be in bad shape IMO.

The tractors just don't have the rollback/breakout force to really get into trouble leveraging the light-duty grapples let alone the HD ones. Just about the only way I can see tearing one up is to take a run at something offset, and then I'd rather the grapple gave way than my tractor!

That kind of mirrors the fact that a lot of people are buying the cheap, light grapples like the Titan and there's no "I destroyed my grapple" threads

 

[EverythingAttachments]

That kind of mirrors the fact that a lot of people are buying the cheap, light grapples like the Titan and there's no "I destroyed my grapple" threads

Cause they probably expect it, suck it up, break out the welder and avoid showing the scraps! :laughing:
Travis

 

[IslandTractor]

Part of it's because the JD model numbers are so confusing. 5045 = 45HP, 5100 = 100HP. Who knew! Seems to be a trend towards higher PTO HPs in the same frame size tractor, as well as the basic fact that maximum lift capabilities on the CUTs are very different than operating capacities on a skid loader. NX is a perfect example of that... 45HP and 60HP are the exact same tractor with the exact same loader capabilities. And while it's plenty stout at 60HP, if that's what sized the grapple I'd be in bad shape IMO. The tractors just don't have the rollback/breakout force to really get into trouble leveraging the light-duty grapples let alone the HD ones. Just about the only way I can see tearing one up is to take a run at something offset, and then I'd rather the grapple gave way than my tractor! That kind of mirrors the fact that a lot of people are buying the cheap, light grapples like the Titan and there's no "I destroyed my grapple" threads

I agree. It is almost impossible for ANY compact utility tractor to destroy even a very light duty grapple if used properly. Grapples are for digging, ripping and lifting not for ramming. And, I could easily do damage to either grapple or FEL of almost any size combination by ramming one side of a grapple into a fixed object at travel speed or less.

Even the lightest duty grapples are built as strong or stronger than standard buckets.

I don't mean to rag on EA here because they have done way more than most manufacturers to help CUT owners understand grapples but more testing would really be helpful. EA has done "severe" testing of their lightest duty grapple on a smallish but heavy tractor (Bobcat CT120=Kioti CK20) and they've worked a ?Kubota L6060 hard with one of their 600lb class grapples. Why not do the public a service and see if the L6060 can damage the compact 50" grapple. I'd put my money on the grapple surviving anything Ted would be willing to do to his FEL. And, if he did damage it I bet there would be a small inexpensive design change that would fix the issue. How about it Ted???

 

[Dadnatron]

Travis,

I don't believe you upsold me. Not at all. I think you did what your company does and gave me your best advice based upon that policy. I accept that and accept my purchase. My only recommendation would be to do more work on the reality of the equipment and perhaps intended use. I know you don't want to sell something that breaks. I respect that fact. But selling something that bogs down the ability of the tractor also isn't good.

A little more research on your company's part determining the TRUE likelihood that a tractor is appropriate and/or could actually tear up an implement, would go a long way. You certainly won't want people tearing up their equipment because it is too light. But on the other hand, you probably don't want people hampered by their equipment, because it is too overbuilt, either.

Your company is great, and I appreciate your help and expertise. I will certainly purchase other things from your company. But in this situation, I think either more research or more information is warranted to insure that what is sold and purchased truly represents the needs of the customer and his equipment. Now... I need to buy that massive box blade to balance out this behemoth of a grapple. My tractor is going to look like an ant carrying a grasshopper.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

I was trying to navigate JDs site to see what they recommend, but it's a nightmare!!
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Island, you'd love this one. Brand new and fresh, BUT, it has a Universal Mini Skid Steer mount on it!
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Hey! Any chance you could take a picture of the one you're building for me? (yeah, like I could tell the difference, but, it would be kind of cool! I could document it's life )

I'm pretty sure this will be yours DieselBound. :cool2:
Travis