The gully to pond project

[Western]

I'll take a guess that his pond surface froze, & of course expanded, which pushed his spillway pipe around enough to loosen the soil around it, & then water below the ice layer started washing the dirt from around the pipe ? ... & then all heck breaks loose: No fix can be done until the water is done washing out.

Now that makes sense:thumbsup:

The deep gully land looks much more usable also. When you are through with the business function of the road it looks like it could be the beginning of a good trail bicycle racing course.:thumbsup:

Jim my bluebonnet is up and blooming. Yes you read that right bluebonnet, no - s, one, singular.

One?? More than I've seen anywhere?? Since Jim brought it up, I've been looking along the roads and highways and nothing. With this rain, it should be an awesome bloom.

 

[pacerron]

I'll take a guess that his pond surface froze, & of course expanded, which pushed his spillway pipe around enough to loosen the soil around it, & then water below the ice layer started washing the dirt from around the pipe ? ... & then all heck breaks loose: No fix can be done until the water is done washing out.

Now you got it:thumbsup:
This didn't happen until the 3rd year when we had a long cold spell. The ice was about 4"-6" thick. When water freezes it expands. There was about 6" of the pipe sticking out at water level and of course more at the top because of the slope of the dam. The reason ( dumb), I put it there is behind the dam that is where the original ravine continues on, so I ran the culvert down to it.
The clay ground was well compacted over the pipe with a Dozer, but the power of the ice on the culvert stub was greater.
When I fixed it I put the culvert clear to one end of the dam about 160 feet from the center and made a vertical riser. 16 years and counting, it is still holding.
Another big advantage of a vertical riser is to be able to adjust the pond level rather easily if you want to for cleaning out muck etc.
Let's get back to Jim's project now. I just had to answer the freeze/heave jokes.
Ron

 

[jinman]

The deep gully land looks much more usable also. When you are through with the business function of the road it looks like it could be the beginning of a good trail bicycle racing course.:thumbsup:

Jim my bluebonnet is up and blooming. Yes you read that right bluebonnet, no - s, one, singular.

Don, one bluebonnet plant means next year you may have several. You HAVE to start somewhere. One is several factors greater than none.

Don, the problem with the clay highway is it will be under water when I build my BIG dam. If you look at the first picture, you can see where the gully goes between two hills. That is where my big pond's dam will go. I'll soon be able to drive from my house all the way over where we had the TBN picnic without going through a single gully. It will open up all kinds of possibilities that have been cut off by that mud-filled gully.

Western: I just got back from Bowie. I had to have my truck inspected, get fuel, and go to TSC. Along the west side of Cougar Mound just before Hwy 59, bluebonnets are in bloom. They'll peak by next week. It seems all our west facing slopes are the first to bloom. I went by an old cemetery in Bowie and maybe 1/4 of it is covered in grape hyacinth. What a display that is!:thumbsup: Our iris just exploded in the last two days and we have a few buds on our tulips. My city kid grandson is in awe of all the flowers. He also picked 17 spears of asparagus yesterday. The onion bulbs have come up and the onion sets are growing like crazy. His eyes have just been opened to the whole world of things he didn't know anything about.

Well, all my errands are done and I have to get back to the dam job. Ron, feel free to talk about all pond issues. In this thread, it's all good.:thumbsup:

 

[Western]

Another big advantage of a vertical riser is to be able to adjust the pond level rather easily if you want to for cleaning out muck etc.
Let's get back to Jim's project now. I just had to answer the freeze/heave jokes.
Ron

Ron, that is a great point, being able to lower or elevate the water level. Sure would help when maintenance was needed.

Ok, back to the dam thread

 

[beppington]

...
Another big advantage of a vertical riser is to be able to adjust the pond level rather easily if you want to for cleaning out muck etc.
Let's get back to Jim's project now. I just had to answer the freeze/heave jokes.
Ron

Interesting, but not sure how that works? I guess you remove a piece of the pipe to allow water to flow out - but is the pipe under a lot of pressure? Do you swim out to the pipe?!! (and try not to get sucked into the pipe?!) :laughing: Or take a boat to it?! Or is the pressure low enough at the depths we're talking about that a piece of the pipe is easily removed?

Or is there another way altogether? (valve?)

 

[txdon]

My 6" overflow drain is about 3' from the bottom of the pond (held in place by 2 steel post) and goes through the lower part of the dam and then goes up behind the dam at a T. At every 2 feet there is a T with a screw in cap that can be opened to drain to any level. The top T is open. Water flows out of it right before it goes over the spillway.

 

[jinman]

My 6" overflow drain is about 3' from the bottom of the pond (held in place by 2 steel post) and goes through the lower part of the dam and then goes up behind the dam at a T. At every 2 feet there is a T with a screw in cap that can be opened to drain to any level. The top T is open. Water flows out of it right before it goes over the spillway.

Yep, if your overflow pipe and vertical section are a big culvert, you get tremendous lift from flotation. Changing water level also gives changing lift. You can use small pipe and mitigate the lift issue somewhat, but you lose maximum flow. A big culvert would require a huge concrete anchor to hold it in place. Putting the pipe well below the pond bottom and covering it with dirt will help some, but the vertical section is still a big buoy constantly pulling upwards.

 

[beppington]

My 6" overflow drain is about 3' from the bottom of the pond (held in place by 2 steel post) and goes through the lower part of the dam and then goes up behind the dam at a T. At every 2 feet there is a T with a screw in cap that can be opened to drain to any level. The top T is open. Water flows out of it right before it goes over the spillway.

OK I get it. Adjust pond level from outside the pond :thumbsup:

Do you happen to have a picture of that setup?

 

[pacerron]

Interesting, but not sure how that works? I guess you remove a piece of the pipe to allow water to flow out - but is the pipe under a lot of pressure? Do you swim out to the pipe?!! (and try not to get sucked into the pipe?!) :laughing: Or take a boat to it?! Or is the pressure low enough at the depths we're talking about that a piece of the pipe is easily removed?

Or is there another way altogether? (valve?)

Yes, Let the wife do it:laughing:
Actually, my vertical overflow is at one end of the dam with some hunks of concrete on the shore side so I can get to it even when there is flow into it and surrounding it. That is just to clean any debris off the grate I have over top of it when the water level is high enough to have water running into it. It really doesn't take much of a pipe diameter to control overflow as TxDon explains below with his 6" pipe and Tee set up. That is a neat idea! Would be a good place to shower after a long run
As Jim explained to a prospective home pond builder in Washington State, there are many variables to consider for ponds that are mainly filled by rain and field run off.
I am lucky [ if ] I have a full pond most of the year for many reasons.
Usually in late summer my pond is naturally down 2-4 feet or more depending on the rainfall. That is when I would adjust the level or clean out muck if needed. The Texas guys had ponds/tanks go completely dry last summer and lost a lot of fish. Some used the opportunity to improve the ponds.
Vertical contraptions have been used to control water height for thousands of years. A simple one is a method called "flashboard risers."
I think you can even get them in plastic these days, but home made ones can last a long time even made out of wood.
Ron

 

[txdon]

OK I get it. Adjust pond level from outside the pond :thumbsup:

Do you happen to have a picture of that setup?

No, sorry, I did not take any pictures during the install and now the only part visible is the 6" vertical piece of PVC with the Ts on the back side of the dam.

There is one disadvantage to this: if the vertical piece is damaged the pond will drain to the level of the damage. I have a 3'x3' metal culvert at the base of the 6" PVC so the cows won't rub on it. The 6" PVC is about 8' in height.

Inside the pond, the last 4' is capped and I drilled about 2000 1/2" holes to act as a strainer.

Jim, I did not know the culverts you are using floated.

 

[pacerron]

Ron, that is a great point, being able to lower or elevate the water level. Sure would help when maintenance was needed.

The most important advantage after eliminating freeze heave IMO is to be able to easily adjust the freeboard level on the dam.
Earth dams, no matter what soil composition and how well compacted during construction, have a tendency to settle/compact more on their own over time. The part of the dam that has the most fill settles the most. I had to lower my vertical riser one time because of this issue. I measured how much I wanted/needed to cut off while the water was still going over the top edge of the riser. Then during the summer when the water level was a bit lower than the amount I needed to cut off I took and old handsaw to the pipe and cut it off in a couple minutes. No digging involved.
Getting quick ground cover established on the bare dirt around the pond is the best solution to keeping erosion from getting back into the pond.
It takes years to get a balanced ecosystem in a pond so mucking it out needs to be avoided if possible more than once every 20-30 years.
Fish are pretty tough but leaving their hiding places and nests undisturbed is the best when possible.
Ron

 

[jinman]

Jim, I did not know the culverts you are using floated.

Don, an empty culvert is just a round boat. If you put an extension and vertical section under water, it has the same lift as a big canoe (a really BIG canoe). Take an empty coffee can turned bottom down and push it straight down into the water for the same effect.

 

[pacerron]

Don, an empty culvert is just a round boat. If you put an extension and vertical section under water, it has the same lift as a big canoe (a really BIG canoe). Take an empty coffee can turned bottom down and push it straight down into the water for the same effect.

This is more like what Don was referring to as an adjustable riser.
Langston University Aquaculture

 

[pacerron]

Other methods worth consideration.
ftp://ftp.fao.org/fi/CDrom/FAO_Training/FAO_Training/General/x6708e/x6708e10.htm

 

[txdon]

This is more like what Don was referring to as an adjustable riser.

That is what I have.

 

[jinman]

Yesterday, I posted photos of my clay highway. Today, I have some photos of my clay mine. I first excavated with the backhoe, but the area is now so big that I can drive the tractor down and fill the bucket with clay while saving the backhoe step. I took pictures of my tractor so you could see the proportions of the mine. I guess I'm a strip miner on a very small scale.

 

[20 20]

good pictures Jinman, looks like you're moving a little clay . Can't do anything around here with all the rain and melting snow.

 

[pacerron]

Yesterday, I posted photos of my clay highway. Today, I have some photos of my clay mine. QUOTE]

Wow.. the Google crawler is really keeping close tabs on you. This post was on Google already last night.
So watch what you say, brush your teeth, and smile for your world wide Google audience

 

[txdon]

Yesterday, I posted photos of my clay highway. Today, I have some photos of my clay mine. QUOTE]

Wow.. the Google crawler is really keeping close tabs on you. This post was on Google already last night.
So watch what you say, brush your teeth, and smile for your world wide Google audience

The key words strip mine? Now the Feds are involved.

 

[Western]

The key words strip mine? Now the Feds are involved.

That would explain why I saw OSHA "staging" near Jim's house:laughing: