The Dumb Things DIYers Do...

[Bird]

Bird, Knob and Tube wiring is a still acceptable practice per the National Electric Code.

I sure didn't know that. My parents' old home was the only place I ever dealt with any. I guess the biggest problem was the insulation on the wires. I'm not even sure what it was, but if you touched it, it just crumbled. A considerable amount of re-wiring was done when I found that.

 

[looknlearn]

Our house has still got a bit of knob-and-tube wiring. The wiring is in pretty good condition but we try to keep our amperage draw to a minimum by using the florescent screw-in light bulbs. The kitchen we redid and it has got new wiring in there for electric kitchen tools. Someday I'm sure it will be all replaced but there are other more important things on the list for now.

 

[dmccarty]

I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone in the building business or HVAC business. I think your link was talking about "northern" homes; not homes in my area. At any rate, I have the AC ducts in the attic, pretty much covered by blown in insulation, we have soffit vents (some of which may have gotten partially blocked by the insulation, and I had two wind turbines installed since we've been here and the attic stays noticeably cooler since the installation of the wind turbines.

Nope, not about houses up Nawth. Though I think that link was about houses up north. I got an email a few weeks back about research on the subject and it covered hotter climates.

I don't think sealed attics are for everyone but if like me your HVAC is in the attic it is worth researching sealed attics if building a new house.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Agree. Get one of those indoor / outdoor thermometers with the wireless remote and stick the remote in the attic. You will be amazed at the temperatures up in the summer.

Yes it gets hope up there. But vents do not make much of a difference in the attic temperature. I don't remember about research on electric attic fans. I do know that our city house had an electric fan in the attic. Running it did nothing but raise my electric bill so I stopped using it.

Our new house is well insulated and we do not have any heat gain that I can tell from the attic in the summer. Heat gain on the west side of the house in the afternoon is big. The amount of heat in the attic leaking into the living spaces is minimal to none.

Later,
Dan

 

[Travelover]

Yes it gets hope up there. But vents do not make much of a difference in the attic temperature. I don't remember about research on electric attic fans. I do know that our city house had an electric fan in the attic. Running it did nothing but raise my electric bill so I stopped using it.

Our new house is well insulated and we do not have any heat gain that I can tell from the attic in the summer. Heat gain on the west side of the house in the afternoon is big. The amount of heat in the attic leaking into the living spaces is minimal to none.

Later,
Dan

My experience has been different. I have a remote thermometer sensor in the attic and when in the summer the sensor exceeds 100 degrees F, I can flip on a exhaust fan. The temperature drops rapidly. I also have it wired to a thermostat set at around 100 degrees and when on auto, it keeps the temperature near 100. Intake is in the soffits, exhaust is in the end gable.

 

[dmccarty]

My experience has been different. I have a remote thermometer sensor in the attic and when in the summer the sensor exceeds 100 degrees F, I can flip on a exhaust fan. The temperature drops rapidly. I also have it wired to a thermostat set at around 100 degrees and when on auto, it keeps the temperature near 100. Intake is in the soffits, exhaust is in the end gable.

Why do you use the exhaust fan?

If the insulation in the house is adequate there should not be a heat leakage between the living spaces and the attic.

Our attic fan increased my power bill so I stopped using it. I really do not care how hot the attic gets since I don't go up there until winter.

Later,
Dan

 

[Travelover]

Why do you use the exhaust fan?

If the insulation in the house is adequate there should not be a heat leakage between the living spaces and the attic.

Our attic fan increased my power bill so I stopped using it. I really do not care how hot the attic gets since I don't go up there until winter.

Later,
Dan

Even with over a foot of insulation, when it is 130 degrees up there, heat is going to travel back into the house. I'm also hoping that keeping the temperature lower will extend the life of the shingles. I only run it on really hot days.

 

[dooleysm]

Heat rises and a foot of insulation is keeping that 130 degree heat away from the interior of your house. I would guess that the top side of your shingles is hotter than 130 degrees. I'm not arguing for or against an attic fan, but I think your reasons for using it may be flawed.

 

[Travelover]

Heat rises and a foot of insulation is keeping that 130 degree heat away from the interior of your house. I would guess that the top side of your shingles is hotter than 130 degrees. I'm not arguing for or against an attic fan, but I think your reasons for using it may be flawed.

Hot air rises, but heat is conducted from hot to cold. When I only had 6 inches of insulation, my ceiling was hot to the touch on a hot summer day. This excerpt from the energystar website expands on this.

At first it may seem odd to add insulation for warmth and then purposely allow cold air to enter the attic through vents, but this combination is the key to a durable and energy-efficient home. Here's why: in the winter, allowing a natural flow of outdoor air to ventilate the attic helps keep it cold, which reduces the potential for ice damming (snow that melts off a roof from an attic that is too warm and then re-freezes at the gutters, causing an ice dam that can damage the roof). Proper insulation and air sealing also keeps attics cold in winter by blocking the entry of heat and moist air from below. In the summer, natural air flow in a well-vented attic moves super-heated air out of the attic, protecting roof shingles and removing moisture. The insulation will resist heat transfer into the house.

About Attic Ventilation : ENERGY STAR

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Keep the stories coming!!! :thumbsup:

 

[dmccarty]

About Attic Ventilation : ENERGY STAR

I would use a better reference. Here is one:
BSD-135: Ice Dams — Building Science Information

Lsiturek is a Phd and PE and studies, researches and writes about Building Science with a company called Building Science. I used his design details from one of his books that matches the climate in my area to build my house. He got me thinking about using a sealed attic which is a wacky idea. Until you start reading the research.

If your ceiling is hot in the summer then you are using power to to cool down your house. In the winter you will have to spend more money to heat up the house. I would think more insulation would save money winter and summer. In my area I am supposed to have around R35-45 in the attic. Can't remember which since the guidelines seem to change. But we have the recommended amount and I do not feel a temperature difference on the ceiling. I did feel a difference in our old city house which did NOT have enough insulation. The house we build is twice the square footage as the city house but over 60% more in volume. But our energy costs are about 30% LESS. And the reason is better insulation. The new house would be much more energy efficient but we wanted WINDOWS. The city house had four windows and one sliding glass door. The new house has more window square foot in the living room than in the entire old house. Good for viewing. Not so much for being energy efficient.

Concern about the heat on the shingles is good. But the real issue is money. Which is going to cost/save more money? A sealed attic which should save energy costs? Or the possible reduced lifetime because of the extra heat on the roof deck. The link I posted about mentions energy savings. I know in another Lstiburek study the extra heat on the shingles was not very much, like in the posted link, and that the reduced shingle lifetime would be minimal if any.

I have no idea if one should seal an existing attic. I just read up on them when I was designing our house. Again I did not do this on our house because it was going to be a battle with the county. This sort of stuff is always a balancing act so in the end the scales were tipped in favor of having a vented attic. But I do think it costs me money in the summer due to increased AC costs. However we only use the HVAC during the summer so the overall cost for us is minimal.

A great resource on building issues is:
Building Science Consulting

Later,
Dan

 

[Dadsgreenpsd]

I do home inspections, and am an electrician, and find quite a few do-it-yourself fixes. I post some of the better pictures on my web page. I especially like it when they purchase extension cords to wire new outlets.... That wire is so cheap, you know... Masonry chimneys built on wooden shelves, plumbing vented into the attic, bathroom fans vented into the attic. Duct tape, masking tape, and electrical tape, none of which are used correctly. And how hard is it to use a romex connector???

 

[Travelover]

...........I have no idea if one should seal an existing attic. I just read up on them when I was designing our house. ..........Later, Dan

OK, if you want to seal up your attic, go for it.

 

[wykubotaguy]

And how hard is it to use a romex connector???

Really hard or so I have seen. 4/0 urd run through a 2" ko with no connector, outdoors and 4' down the wall w/o pipe into the ground!:thumbdown:
Bird, on the knob and tube. I guy i work with was in Sheridan, Wy and had a service call with a journeyman where the customer was complaing about power issues in a room. They looked in the attice and didn't need a flashlight!!!!!!!!! The insulation had fallen off because the wire was bright red like toaster filaments! It had burnt trails through the blown in insulation. Needless to say they told the homeowner to turn off all the power and get a complete rewire.:thumbsup: